Best States for White Tail Deer?

I just did a quick search of Boone & Crocket, Pope & Young World records, and texas has ZERO world record species, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif ( this includes all native big game).

Arizona seems to be the state with the most world record species. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Arizona is a fair chase hunt, I've hunted the whole state and there are not fences that are designed to hold in game animals, (3-4 strand fences) only ment for cattle. Arizona probly has the most public lands in the nation, (BLM, National Forests, Trust Lands)

I did read thou that texas does hold 2 world records, :eek: 2 different catagories. The first is, highest fenced in game, and highest prices charged to hunt these penned in critters... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Do you lock the gate each time you go in and out??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Brian, Woodrow,

Hat's off to ya, you both make great points. I went to the TEXAS HUNTERS EXTRAVAGANZA this week end and I must say that was one awesome show. If you have not been........ go next year.

Woodrow, I met with the guys from www.plakalodge.com and they do have nice deer, Hell I met with every major outfitter in the country, high fence, low fence, no fence, electric fence. LOL

Kansas, Ill, OK, MI, NE,IA and the no states as well Canada, Argentina, Mexico. They all had exellent representaion.

Just a great show with great products and information. Beware, many of the mounted bucks are shed antlers, don't let them fool ya.
 
Bud,

Nobody from Texas claimed to have "world record" game. And we are only talking about white-tails here. Do a search of the number of bucks scoring over 160 taken each year and you will see my point. It is well known that Arizona has the largest bull Elk out there. Just ask Jack Brittingham......and trust me, he pays a ton for those huge Arizona bulls.

http://www.jackbrittingham.com/articles/nhp_20030505.php

I dislike high-fences and high prices too.
 
Woodrow,

No offense taken. I think you misunderstood my point a little though. I didn't say that Texas did not have some whoppers, WE do. I am just saying that if any given hunter were to see say 10 deer that were bucks in a non-high fenced area, the chances in Texas that 2 of them would score over 150 are SLIM. The average size buck killed in Texas is around the 110"-115" mark. In many parts of the midwest the chances of seeing a deer in the 150" range is probably double that at around 4 out of ten bucks seen. With the average closer to the 135"-140" mark. The sheer numbers of deer in Texas gives us an advantage as hunters in connecting on a deer but not neccesarily on book animals. Remember I am only talking about fair chase opportunities.

I am Texan pure and simple but I am not so set that I don't realize that the opportunity to see and kill a TRUE book animal is higher in areas other than my own beloved state.

I am not trying to get in a spitting match. I tried to quantify in my original post that "best" is a very open ended qualification. I have killed enough deer that "best" to me personally means the largest animal that the species can produce. A larger deer in body weight and stature is obviouly going to carry more bone on his head as a general rule. Just like a 7 foot guy is probably going to have longer legs than a 5 foot guy. That is just the way it is. I do subscribe to Dr. James Kroll's theory that the norther whitetail is, and should be considered a different sub-species than the smaller southern deer that we have here. The exception would probably be in and around the panehandle area and along the Red River. It appears that the larger, northern, cousin to our native deer seem to be making there way southward.

Again, I am not trying to ruffle any feathers. Texas whitetails are great. I have hunted them for many years and killed 77 of them in the last 22 years, had to do some work on a game ranch a few years ago. But if I spend a week in the field and I want to maximize my odds on seeing and harvesting a true record book animal in a fair chase situation, for my money, the midwest is the place to be. For a hunt that I know that I will see deer and have a good chance of harvesting a good average deer, Texas is where I'll be.
 
I'll say this just once as far as BIG RACKS on whitetail deer in the wild go! The state of Missouri held the world record for many a year folks and there are still very big rack deer running around all over those counties in Northern Missouri. It is NOT fenced type Texas hunting either for the most part...Amen.

Now that is what is wrong with the whole hunting concept today in my opinion. There are two many folks trying to make a big profit off hunters by raising big racked whitetail deer. No way can the common working man with a family to support, take his son or daughter and spend $10,000 for such a deer hunt.

Besides, big racks aren't the only means buy judging a good time or successful hunt. If you want to go to Texas or any where else and pay Magga Bucks for big racks (pardon the pun please) that's your perogative I suppose. I have heard from others who went on such a hunt and seen the video's of some of the industries big wig hunters harvesting big rack bucks. To me these type hunts are not the ethical way as I was brought up to hunt. Kinda like shooing a steer out of a heard in a cattle man's back yard. The industry is pulling the wool over the hunters eyes in other words. NOT my kind of fair chase hunt! Texas hunting of whitetail deer is for the most part, BAITING simply said. The deer are raised or ranched like cattle. NOT my idea of a real "FAIR CHASE" hunt period.
 
Tonk, you are right about the high fences! I don't like it at all! I choose not to focus on those places. I read 2 stories in TTHA magazine last night. One was great, one sucked. The one that sucked was a guy that flew in from out of state and shot a double drop tine monster on the same day.......He was obviously some rich guy that the outfitter knew paid big buck$ for big bucks b/c the outfitter called the hunter. Now, can I blame the outfitter (though I don't totally agree with the ethics b/c it was a high fenced ranch), not really. He is trying to make a living, so if he knows some guy is going to wayyy over pay........good for the outfitter. If the guy wasn't willing to pay that money, the outfitter couldn't charge it! It sucks! The other story was about a guy who put in for a public draw hunt on the Chaparal wildlife management area. No high fences, no feeders (another thing I could do without, but that is a whole other can of worms).....just the hunter and the deer. He killed a 160 class buck and passed on another real good one. That is the kind of Texas hunting I like. Ranches not high fenced like the King and Callaghan that produce monster deer each year.

Brian, we will agree to disagree to a certain degree........that was weird to write. It all depends on where in Texas you are hunting. The average deer in Texas scores so low b/c of the hill country, central Texas and parts of east Texas where the hunter shoots whatever he sees. I would venture to say that in the other areas of Texas, a patient hunter has a real good chance of killing a great buck if he is patient. Another factor is that b/c there are so many deer, that means there are going to be that many more small deer. If places in the hill country would shoot more deer and more of the right deer, the size would be greatly improved. It is great to see your Texas Pride though!

So where do you do your hunting? I have hunted most everywhere except the panhandle and east Texas.....oh, and far west Texas.
 
Woodrow,

Again, you have hit the nail on the head. Proper game management. I talked to two guides at this trophy out fitter in MO at the Extravaganza. I said, What is the secret to your success on your ranch? Is it genetics, nutrition, age? He said, Iron Pony,...................it's age. Simply age.

The problem Texas has in my eyes is too many poachers and improper game management.

I don't have a problem with waiting for a monster buck to come to the feeder just like I don't have a problem with a shark coming to the chum. If I wanted to chase something I'd divorce and chase women.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Iron Pony, you are right, age is huge! A great example on this is the Sandhills in the western panhandle. The mule deer there are 300+ pounds with great racks b/c they have not hardly been hunted (no season till recently) and thus allowed to grow big!

That is why it is everyones dream to hunt the place that nobody else has/does!
 
Woodrow,

I think we are more on the same page than you realize. I totally agree with what you just said. You are right on with the number of deer here bringing down the average as far as size is concerned. I hunted in south Texas for a number of years and there are indeed som great bucks in that country. The largest I ever saw or took was in the high 160 range though. Not to say that there aren't some there that are a little bigger but that deer was, in my opinion the exception and not the rule as far as percentages. The last few years has had me in Kansas and Iowa. The AVERAGE buck in Kansas is far bigger than the AVERAGE deer in Texas, yes even south Texas. The last deer I killed with my bow NET SCORED 183 2/8 and field dressed 262 lbs., and he wasn't the biggest deer that I saw. Just the biggest in bow range. I have a shed in my possesion that measure 98". Yes that is right 98" for ONE SIDE. Not counting the other side or spread. I have seen this deer through a spotting scope at about 400 yards. He is quite possibly the NEXT world record. The other side of his rack is VERY similar and he has approx a 25"-26" inside spread, putting him in the mid 220's for a score. This deer will probably top the scales at over 300lbs. Trust me, You will NOT see a deer of that caliber in Texas. How much do I pay to hunt in an area with deer of this caliber? Less that half of what it costs me for my family lease in Childress. Sickening, I know. I still love to hunt in Texas, Seasons, limits, and even a better than average quality of deer have alway been an appeal. COST is really the biggest deterrent. I too detest the high fence issue. I was always under the understanding that native deer were a public resource. How then a guy charge me a fee to hunt an animal that is already public property? I know, Trespass Fee. I don't have a problem with that. Just don't tell me which animal I can shoot if I have paid my fee. How can you put a wild animal inside a high fence? Isn't that theft of public property. These are some of the things that puzzle me.

No problems here Woodrow. I think you and I are more of like mind than you realize.

Brian
 
Brian, as much as I hate to admit it......you are probably right. I agree, we are more on the same page than I originally thought. Now, how do I go about carrying your luggage next time you go to Kansas? LOL! Seriously, my buddy and I have been wanting to hunt Kansas or Nebraska......do you have any suggestions? You can e-mail me at 112302@ev1.net or post here.........whatever you want.

Does your place in Childress have mulies?
 
I looked, so whats your piont??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Woodrow,

i have a friend who owns and operates/controls right around 100,000 acres, and growing each year. I started hunting with him about seven or eight years ago when we booked started booking a bunch of pheasant hunts. We would see the whitetails and I asked about hunting them. He had never outfitted for deer but was willing to let me put something together. In the past four years our waiting list has grown but the largest deer we have taken to date is a 204 and change non-typical and the smallest was a yearling that one of the guys got ansy withthe first year and shot. The yearling still scored 137 as an eith point. Body weights have ranged from 220lbs. to 270lbs. all dressed weights. Fortunately for me I have been given full control for booking ALL of his deer hunts, Archery hunts are $2,000 and the rifle/muzzleloader hunts are $5,000. This may seem high to most but when you have hunted Texas you realize the rates are about half of what you would expect to pay here for this caliber of deer. All hunts are 5 days 6 nights fully guided and meals and lodging are included. Tags and Licenses are on your own as far as cost. If you are drawn you are ahead of the game but landowner transferables are available. The muzzleloader hunts are for any deer that include mulies. Typical mulies in his area can range up to and over 200" They are whoppers but a non-resident must hunt them with muzzleloader. It is by far the best deal that I have found for BOOK class animals. He only hunts 10 hunters a year so his game management is not really an issue. His properties had never been hunted before I started booking hunts for him. He is very accommodating as far as schedules but rifle season is only 12 days or so. Makes scheduling a little tight. That is one reason that I started bow hunting with him. It just fits my schedule better. Not to mention that with a very tight buck to doe ration the bucks can be broken up somewhat by the time rifle season rolls around. These big animals are very agressive and like to fight very hard. Makes rattling very interesting during the first part of November. He is actually an alfalfa farmer so the properties are an automatic draw for deer anyway. I absolutely love seeing those bruisers in the fall up there.

Yes we have mulies in Childress but nothing like the animals we see in Kansas.

Email me if you are truly interested. I would be happy to discuss particulars.

Brian
 
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