Black Powder Hunting in CO
- Thread starter elks
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ColoradoOsprey
New member
regs page 7
Half way down on the left:
In-line muzzleloaders are leagal
Must be single-barrel that fires single round-ball or conical projectile the length of which does not exceed twice the diameter
To hunt deer, pronghorn or bear they must be min. of 40 caliber
To hunt elk or moose they must be min. of 50 caliber
From 40 to 50 caliber bullets must weigh min 170 grains
If greater than 50 caliber bullets must weigh min 210 grains
Shotshell primers are leagal
Pelletized powder systems are prohibited
Cannot be loaded from the breech
Only open or iron sites. Fiber Optics and flourescent paint incorporated into an open or iron site are leagal
Scopes or any sighting device using artificial light, batteries and electronic gear are prohibited
Sabots are prohibited. Cloth patches are not Sabots
Smokeless powder is prohibited. Black powder and black powder substitutes are leagal
Only leagal muzzleloaders allowed in muzzleloading season
Electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or attached to a muzzleloader.
_________________________________________________________
No electric primers, no sabots, no pyrodex pellets, no scopes
What you need:
Pyrodex or black powder, balls or conicals, percussion cap/shotshell primer or flint gun.
Powerbelts are ok
Half way down on the left:
In-line muzzleloaders are leagal
Must be single-barrel that fires single round-ball or conical projectile the length of which does not exceed twice the diameter
To hunt deer, pronghorn or bear they must be min. of 40 caliber
To hunt elk or moose they must be min. of 50 caliber
From 40 to 50 caliber bullets must weigh min 170 grains
If greater than 50 caliber bullets must weigh min 210 grains
Shotshell primers are leagal
Pelletized powder systems are prohibited
Cannot be loaded from the breech
Only open or iron sites. Fiber Optics and flourescent paint incorporated into an open or iron site are leagal
Scopes or any sighting device using artificial light, batteries and electronic gear are prohibited
Sabots are prohibited. Cloth patches are not Sabots
Smokeless powder is prohibited. Black powder and black powder substitutes are leagal
Only leagal muzzleloaders allowed in muzzleloading season
Electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or attached to a muzzleloader.
_________________________________________________________
No electric primers, no sabots, no pyrodex pellets, no scopes
What you need:
Pyrodex or black powder, balls or conicals, percussion cap/shotshell primer or flint gun.
Powerbelts are ok
White Eagle
New member
I have a 54 cal Hawken perc
for sights I have a peep and fiber optic front
I use 230 gr hornady round balls(.535) w/.010 patch and pyrodex rs powder
I have only killed deer with that combo but it works very well for my rifle
for sights I have a peep and fiber optic front
I use 230 gr hornady round balls(.535) w/.010 patch and pyrodex rs powder
I have only killed deer with that combo but it works very well for my rifle
Longcruise
New member
Quote:
Well I have a cousin comming out to hunt black powder season. We are trying to figure out what powder, bullet etc. He can use. It is a .50 cal CVA optima pro. magnum.
Anythoughts? I do not know Muzzleloading rifles at all. What can we use?
Elks, not going to hold myself out as an "expert", but I have been hunting big game in CO with ml guns since 1975. Have hunted a lot with modern guns but even more with ml.
So, I'll give some suggestions for his set up. A good over the counter bullet is the TC Maxi Hunter. The Hornady in the lighter .50 cal weights are good too. Power belts are popular, but I have personally witnessed some odd terminal performance with them. If he is inclined to cast his own, the Lyman great plains mould is excellent. It's smart to avoid the ones with pointy noses like the maxi ball and Lee REAL. They don't make a very good wound channel. For hunting, flat noses rule in ml guns just as they do in big bore handguns. Store bought slugs are usually prelubed but if casting then the TC bore butter is a good lube as is a mix of about 2 parts bees wax to 8 parts crisco or lard.
Powder wise, the modern "subs" are very popular but truth be known, they are a bit harder to ignite than "real" bp and he can get all the power he needs with real bp to boot. If he is going to use a sub, I'd recommend Pyrodex RS for it's ease of use and slightly better ignition charachteristics than the other subs. But... not as good as real bp. The Swiss powders are close to as "hot" as the Triple Seven that everybody is in love with and once again gives better ignition. Real BP will always deliver more consistent velocities. SDs of 3 to 7 are common for real bp.
Loads: A .50 cal gun will reliably take deer and elk from as long a range as he can reliabley and consistently place a slug in the vitals from likely field positions and under field conditions. And, it will do it with a charge of 80 grains (by volume) of any of the powders he chooses to use. I know his Optima sports that "magnum" label but some time spent at the range will show that the gains gotten with heavier charges will give him just a bit of improvement in trajectory (he does not need more veloctiy that the 80 grains will give to kill to as far as he can hit. You can etch that in stone! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif). Guys who are shooting those huge 150 grain charges are only hurting themselves and usually leave the range after 10 or 15 shots. I see it every year! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
The last elk I killed with a .50 cal and a slug was at 131 yards and was hit with a 375 grain slug powered by 70 (seventy) grains of ffg Goex bp). The elk did not go 20 yards. It's all about shot placement.
Those in-line guns are usually equiped to use a shot gun primer and it is a good choice for that type of gun.
For shooting procedure he should get in the habit of wiping the bore with a damp patch between shots. Not too wet!!!! Just damp. For cleanup, you can buy any number of incredibly magical formulas. They don't work as well as plain old tap water! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Warm tap water will clean up bp or sub residue faster than anything sold for the purpose. Avoid the easy-clean-up turd hunt and just use what your mom told you to use behind your ears! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
And, a major warning on the subject of clean up. The subs are often sold as being non-corrosive and not needing careful or prompt cleaning. It's not so. They all contain corrosive elements that can destroy a barrel quickly if left uncared for. The gun should be cleaned completly and dried completely within 12 hours of being fired and sooner is better. Avoid the use of typical petroleum based lubricants and bore protectants. When mixed with burning bp and subs they form a tar that sticks to the bore. The real corrosion cause is powder residue in the presence of moisture. So, if you get the residue out with water, dry it and treat with WD40 it will be fine. WD40 left in quantitiy for long periods of time can dry into a sort of varnish that seems impossible to remove until you simply disolve it with some fresh WD40 and wipe it away.
Well, that turned out to be longer than planned. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Once you get the basics the best teacher is range time.
Well I have a cousin comming out to hunt black powder season. We are trying to figure out what powder, bullet etc. He can use. It is a .50 cal CVA optima pro. magnum.
Anythoughts? I do not know Muzzleloading rifles at all. What can we use?
Elks, not going to hold myself out as an "expert", but I have been hunting big game in CO with ml guns since 1975. Have hunted a lot with modern guns but even more with ml.
So, I'll give some suggestions for his set up. A good over the counter bullet is the TC Maxi Hunter. The Hornady in the lighter .50 cal weights are good too. Power belts are popular, but I have personally witnessed some odd terminal performance with them. If he is inclined to cast his own, the Lyman great plains mould is excellent. It's smart to avoid the ones with pointy noses like the maxi ball and Lee REAL. They don't make a very good wound channel. For hunting, flat noses rule in ml guns just as they do in big bore handguns. Store bought slugs are usually prelubed but if casting then the TC bore butter is a good lube as is a mix of about 2 parts bees wax to 8 parts crisco or lard.
Powder wise, the modern "subs" are very popular but truth be known, they are a bit harder to ignite than "real" bp and he can get all the power he needs with real bp to boot. If he is going to use a sub, I'd recommend Pyrodex RS for it's ease of use and slightly better ignition charachteristics than the other subs. But... not as good as real bp. The Swiss powders are close to as "hot" as the Triple Seven that everybody is in love with and once again gives better ignition. Real BP will always deliver more consistent velocities. SDs of 3 to 7 are common for real bp.
Loads: A .50 cal gun will reliably take deer and elk from as long a range as he can reliabley and consistently place a slug in the vitals from likely field positions and under field conditions. And, it will do it with a charge of 80 grains (by volume) of any of the powders he chooses to use. I know his Optima sports that "magnum" label but some time spent at the range will show that the gains gotten with heavier charges will give him just a bit of improvement in trajectory (he does not need more veloctiy that the 80 grains will give to kill to as far as he can hit. You can etch that in stone! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif). Guys who are shooting those huge 150 grain charges are only hurting themselves and usually leave the range after 10 or 15 shots. I see it every year! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
The last elk I killed with a .50 cal and a slug was at 131 yards and was hit with a 375 grain slug powered by 70 (seventy) grains of ffg Goex bp). The elk did not go 20 yards. It's all about shot placement.
Those in-line guns are usually equiped to use a shot gun primer and it is a good choice for that type of gun.
For shooting procedure he should get in the habit of wiping the bore with a damp patch between shots. Not too wet!!!! Just damp. For cleanup, you can buy any number of incredibly magical formulas. They don't work as well as plain old tap water! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Warm tap water will clean up bp or sub residue faster than anything sold for the purpose. Avoid the easy-clean-up turd hunt and just use what your mom told you to use behind your ears! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
And, a major warning on the subject of clean up. The subs are often sold as being non-corrosive and not needing careful or prompt cleaning. It's not so. They all contain corrosive elements that can destroy a barrel quickly if left uncared for. The gun should be cleaned completly and dried completely within 12 hours of being fired and sooner is better. Avoid the use of typical petroleum based lubricants and bore protectants. When mixed with burning bp and subs they form a tar that sticks to the bore. The real corrosion cause is powder residue in the presence of moisture. So, if you get the residue out with water, dry it and treat with WD40 it will be fine. WD40 left in quantitiy for long periods of time can dry into a sort of varnish that seems impossible to remove until you simply disolve it with some fresh WD40 and wipe it away.
Well, that turned out to be longer than planned. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Once you get the basics the best teacher is range time.
Cool thanks all. I will let him read this and we will go from there. He actually put 1st choice as statewide bull and 2nd as cow. He drew the cow.
I will get him working on using the TC Maxi Hunter, and some BP. See how his range time turn out. I will also relay the information on cleaning.
Thanks again.
I will get him working on using the TC Maxi Hunter, and some BP. See how his range time turn out. I will also relay the information on cleaning.
Thanks again.
Longcruise
New member
You're welcome.
Oddly, my cousin is coming out for his first ml hunt ever. He's coming from Michigan. Drew a statewide cow tag. His son lives out here so he is visiting a few days. We are headed to the range tomorrow with his new gun so he can shoot it for the first time. Don't know what gun he got but it's an in-line .50 of some sort.
Oddly, my cousin is coming out for his first ml hunt ever. He's coming from Michigan. Drew a statewide cow tag. His son lives out here so he is visiting a few days. We are headed to the range tomorrow with his new gun so he can shoot it for the first time. Don't know what gun he got but it's an in-line .50 of some sort.
Longcruise
New member
Elks, This report might be of interest.
My cousin unpacked his rifle and it was a Traditions break action rifle with 1/28 twist. Looked to be well made.
He also had some Hornady plastic tipped jacketed bullets with a cupped hollow base. After a 25 yard session that showed promise he moved his target to 50 yards. The POI became erratic and unpredictable. At 100 yards they were all over a 28X28 target. After thinking about it for a bit I got to thinking that since they were jacketed and a bit hard, there was no way they were seating into the grooves when loaded. Now doubt the cupped base expanded into the grooves but it seemed reasonable to conclude that the forward portion of the slug was probably riding the lands or seated in the grooves more on one side than the other causing them to come out with a pretty good wobble and finally settling down with considerable variation in POI.
That's all speculation of course, but it led me to drag from the bottom of my shooting box some pure lead Maxi Bullets that I'd cast from pure lead. Thinking that the pure lead would upset into the bore more easily, we tried three of them at the 50 yard mark, Was a near cloverleaf with just a hair of paper separating one shot from the first two.
Anyway, not recommending Maxi Balls cause I think they are a bit too pointy for a good wound channel but it does speak well for the pure lead slugs as opposed to the jacketed ones.
My cousin unpacked his rifle and it was a Traditions break action rifle with 1/28 twist. Looked to be well made.
He also had some Hornady plastic tipped jacketed bullets with a cupped hollow base. After a 25 yard session that showed promise he moved his target to 50 yards. The POI became erratic and unpredictable. At 100 yards they were all over a 28X28 target. After thinking about it for a bit I got to thinking that since they were jacketed and a bit hard, there was no way they were seating into the grooves when loaded. Now doubt the cupped base expanded into the grooves but it seemed reasonable to conclude that the forward portion of the slug was probably riding the lands or seated in the grooves more on one side than the other causing them to come out with a pretty good wobble and finally settling down with considerable variation in POI.
That's all speculation of course, but it led me to drag from the bottom of my shooting box some pure lead Maxi Bullets that I'd cast from pure lead. Thinking that the pure lead would upset into the bore more easily, we tried three of them at the 50 yard mark, Was a near cloverleaf with just a hair of paper separating one shot from the first two.
Anyway, not recommending Maxi Balls cause I think they are a bit too pointy for a good wound channel but it does speak well for the pure lead slugs as opposed to the jacketed ones.
Longcruise
New member
Won't hurt to go to 100, but if he has a lie detector (chronograph) it will help him see his way.
Velocities will vary a lot depending on the powder used. If using a substitute, I'd recommend pyrodex. T7 is good to as long as he does not run into ignition problems.
My cousin had one complete failure to ignite using t7 and 209 primers, and he had not wiped the bore. Sooo, it wasn't wet powder!
Velocities will vary a lot depending on the powder used. If using a substitute, I'd recommend pyrodex. T7 is good to as long as he does not run into ignition problems.
My cousin had one complete failure to ignite using t7 and 209 primers, and he had not wiped the bore. Sooo, it wasn't wet powder!
Elks: Nothing wrong with the Maxi-hunter with BP. You might also try Triple 7 powder and at least a 285 grain conical. A 1:28 twist is more appropriate for a sabot and it might not work well with conicals and high powder charges. Shallow rifling and high powder charges can cut the corner of a conical, cause gas blow by and hurt accuracy. I often use 85 grains with conicals in .50 and .54 caliber rifles. My favorite elk load is a .54 caliber with a 430-grain conical and 100 grains of BP, Pyrodex RS... or 85 grains of Triple 7. Whatever.
If he can group within a pie plate at 100 yards and he has a good heavy lead projectile, he will kill elk.
If he can group within a pie plate at 100 yards and he has a good heavy lead projectile, he will kill elk.