Bolt binding / hard to close

Hidalgo

Hidalgo

Well-known member
I have a Ruger M77VT that is doing some strange things. If you load the magazine, and cycle the action, it works fine. If you "single-feed" it, the bolt seems to get in a "bind" and is very difficult to close. Once closed, you can open it, with the round still in the chamber, and it closes properly. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I am shooting my reolads, in new brass, that I have resized before loading. My die is bottomed out against the ram, as per Redding instructions. OAL is short enough to not be a factor because of the magazine length requirements. This doesn't happen every time, but maybe 8 of 10 rounds if you single feed them. Like I said, if you load the magazine it's fine.

Any suggestions? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Does it have a non-rotating extractor like on a Mauser bolt? If so, when you single feed it the extractor has to "snap" over the rim and once it does that it's easy. Feeding from the magazine allows the rim to fit under the extrator as it's being fed. I would think modern designs would allow for that, but you might have a stubborn round once in a while. I had a 77VT in 308 a couple of years ago and can't remember if it had a that type extractor.
 
yep,..your extractor has to snap over the case rim,...and this is causing your binding feel. Keep in mind,..the extractor claw will cant the round in the chamber as it is trying to snap over the rim, and increase runout by pushing the bullet against the leade. M77's gotta be fed from the box. My handload groups shrunk, and became more consistent once I figured this out. I was single feeding,..now I feed from the box.
 
Looks like it does have a non-rotating extractor for controlled round feeding. Binding should be at the last point before the bolt closes when the extractor is trying to snap over the rim. You can smooth the edge off the front of the extractor to help if you're careful.
 
Thanks guys. That makes sense, and I think that you are dead on...the heads of the cases are marked pretty well where the extractor has slid over them.

HURRAY! I learned something today! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks again! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Hidalgo,

I always feed from the mag to avoid the problem.
Not sure about your vintage Ruger but if it is like a Mauser you can minimize the force required by pushing in on the extractor at about the mid-point of the bolt body. This will cause the claw to spread out and pop over the rim easier. They're pretty springy.
 
If you'd shoot real rifles you wouldn't have that problem. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Just kidding, Rugers are real...real...real something anyhow. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
i think the descriptor you're looking for is "real reliable". you can't argue with controlled round feeding, but you can't treat it like a push-feed, either. not meaning to stir up the fire, here, but some of us really enjoy ruger guns. they're not as quick in production as the bigger companies, they don't look as nice, but they are all built like tanks, and they have the best warranty system i've ever been around.
 
It's like the difference between automatics and stick shift's.........and YES, I DO LIKE STICK SHIFTS TOO!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Quote:
I'm just pulling Hidalgo's leg.



One day Leon, I'm gonna get our your direction. Maybe we can buy each other a cold beverage and have a few laughs. I think we've both got a case of "Dry Sense of Humor Disease" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The really sad thing is, I have owned Rugers most of my life and this is the first one I've ever tried to single-feed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Speaking of REAL rifles, my son has his eye on a CZ for his poodle gun. I gotta figure out a way to get him back on the wagon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Any time you make it out here just let me know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Try to make it out to next year's Globe hunt the last weekend of Jan. You'll have the time of your life, guaranteed. Airline tickets are cheap if you get them in advance.
 
The weird thing is, is that Midway has that single shot converter jigger that you put in so you turn the 77/Target model into a single shot. That would produce a lot of problems wouldnt it, I mean you have to load a round into the magazine to get the claw to snap over the rim when you load it right.

Oh yeah, I like Rugers too, very fine lined rifles I think. (Just to add some fuel to the fire, hahaha)
 
Quote:
Oh yeah, I like Rugers too, very fine lined rifles I think. (Just to add some fuel to the fire, hahaha)



Let me say this....

Leon & myself trade jabs when we get a chance. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It's all in fun. He knows it, and I know it. But, you see, there's one thing that binds he and I together on this "gun" deal. Anytime we go afield and are serious about killing something, we take one of these: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DSC_0032.jpg


Rugers are way cool. But a DTech AR is my "killing machine" of choice.
 
Now guys, I may not be a real big fan of Rugers, but you shouldn't use them to fuel a fire, they're worth more than that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Actually I have nothing at all against Rugers, though I've owned more of their revolvers than rifles. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Hey Hidalgo!
Don't let Leon get to you! ...and if you're heading out that way stop here in Illinois and take me with you!!!! Leon is a great guy and certainly deserving of any and all teasing and jabs that come his way! I might add he doesn't shoot too well either....LOL

As has already been said, Ruger center fire bolt actions use "control round feeding" and really aren't designed for single feed. Putting a "Follower" in the magazine will allow single feeding on the bench. I have used this method for years! My Ruger 22PPC MK77VT has one and it is my "go to" long range predator rifle! I can load out to the lands and control overall length(no magazine to fit round into) easier for more consistant work on paper. The follower slips in and out just by dropping the trapdoor. Well worth the $20 for PD range or bench work.
This is the gun my daughter Katie used to win the "GoGo Varmint Egg Shoot" in the youth division a couple of years ago... she was only 11 then! She hit 7 out of 10 eggs in a shootoff at 200yds with only 7 shots after hitting the first 10 eggs at 200!!!!!(Leon, maybe you'll get to see it first hand next year at the PM egg shoot!!!!)That's right 17 eggs in a row! Now granted, that was from a benchrest... still great shooting and I'm still very proud of her and that trophy! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Nikonut /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Quote:
M77's gotta be fed from the box. My handload groups shrunk, and became more consistent once I figured this out. I was single feeding,..now I feed from the box.



This is interesting info. here...I never thought about this.
How can you tell if a rifle needs to be fed from the box or not?
 
controlled round feed (anything with a claw extractor) needs to be fed from the magazine. The bolt pushes the case off the follower, and as it hits the feed ramp, the rim is actually rotated up and behind the extractor claw, and only makes contact as it is extracted, not while being chambered.

push feeds like the post 64' winchesters (except the classics) and rem700's, etc can be fed any way you like as they simply push the round into the chamber, and the extractor located in the boltface will snap right over the rim as it is smaller and the feed/extraction geometry is not as critical as a controlled round feed.
 
something else you'll notice with controlled round feeding is that you can actually hold the weapon upside down, and it will still cycle the rounds into the chamber, even if you're moving slow. will i ever need to operate it inverted? probably not, it's just a piece of trivia.

also, with controlled round feeding, the round is immediately locked to the bolt face when you start sliding it forward. everybody familiar with push feed knows that if you're running the rounds out of a blind magazine, you need to send the bolt all the way forward - and most need to be locked down - in order for the bolt to grab the rim, so the round can be ejected. with controlled round feeding, it's locked in as soon as it leaves the magazine. yes, i know, trivial again. but it is a really solid system.
 
Good points!

Another benefit is the ability to short cycle the bolt to remove rounds from the magazine. Works great if you only have a round or two in the mag... otherwise drop the trapdoor to unload.

I sure like my Rugers! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Nikonut /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 


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