Bolt vs Single vs AR

Quote:With practice you can reload a bolt just as fast as the self loader, but it will take longer to get back on target.



My AR is reloaded before it registers in my brain that the round has gone off. If you watch the bolt on a delayed blow-back auto-loader like my H-K, you can't even see it move. It throws the case 20+ feet from the bolt velocity.

You can rack a bolt that fast, huh?

Does your elbow hurt much from going supersonic?
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The real beauty of an AR is when you're pulling lead on running game. It lets you concentrate on the sight picture and increase/decrease the lead without bobbling around trying to work a bolt. I bet I can get 5 shots off while you're shooting 2.

Of course, with a bolt action you would hit them the first shot, I suppose.
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Sorry for leving them out. If you have one speak up. Some of those cowboy action shooters and make a lever action sing. LOL
 
Shoot what you want. That's what it boils down to. We live in a country where we can use what we please. I'll use my slow loading bolt action you can use your fast AR. You can fire 5 rounds to my 2, I'm fine with that. Spray and pray all over the countryside for all I care. Just enjoy the hunt and be happy to have the oportunity.
 
Guns are like Lays Potato Chips, come on, you can't just have one! My wife says I have a bad case of G.A.S. I tell her that is not a bad thing.
 
If you had read my post closely I said the self loader was slightly faster ready to fire than a bolt. But the self loader is much faster back on target because of less recoil.

I was saying the self loader is faster on target not slower!!!

Watching someone good with a turnbolt action is educating. There are a few BR shooters who can and frequently do shoot a 5 shot group in less than 3 seconds with a single shot bolt action.
David Tubb can work the 2000 action faster than you can see.
Even an old guy like me after 25 years of practice can work a good bolt across-the-course rifle almost as fast as an AR reloads, but no-way can I get the bolt back on target as quick. The double problems of loosing full contact and the more recoil makes the bolt significantly slower back on target.

Jack
 
I did read your post closely.

Quote:With practice you can reload a bolt just as fast as the self loader

By "reload" I figured you meant the time from cartridge ignition until another round was chambered and ready to shoot.
An M16 has a rate of fire of 800 rounds per minute, so each cycle would be .075 seconds.
Assuming you have a stright pull bolt, and the travel is 2.5 inches (5 inches total movement back-stop-forward), your hand would have to travel 5 inches in .075 seconds to equal the M16's action speed.

Quote:Simple reaction time is the time required for an observer to respond to the presence of a stimulus. For example, a subject might be asked to press a button as soon as a light or sound appears. Mean RT is approximately 180-200 msec milliseconds to detect visual stimulus, and approximately 140-160 milliseconds to detect an auditory stimulus.[

Since .075 is less than .140, the AR is already in battery before you're even aware that it's time to start pulling on the bolt.

Get my point?
 
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I get your point Evil Lurker, but if the cross hairs aren't where they need to be when you pull the trigger it doesn't matter what action rifle you're shooting. I do agree the AR is faster cycling though.
 
Quote:I get your point Evil Lurker, but if the cross hairs aren't where they need to be when you pull the trigger it doesn't matter what action rifle you're shooting.

I'm in complete agreement with that. It's no harder to put an AR back on target than any other .223 rifle, though.
My .308 is a bit of a different story, but I'll put that up against bolt actions for rate of accurate fire, too. It rocks you off target pretty good, though, unless you bagged in tight.
 
Quote:yea lurker I've shot at running game. What does that have to do with this thread?

Nothing. Holding a lead on a running animal and putting out a series of shots as you adjust lead until you get a hit is often referred to as "Spray and pray all over the countryside", I reckon.
I grew up jump-shooting jackrabbits with .22's, so we've probably got a different outlook on the subject. Which is okay.

I traded my bolt rifle for an auto as soon as I could afford it. But if you can dump them first shot, on the run (and I've seen a few folks that are amazingly good at it), the type of action you shoot doesn't really matter.
 
I would say that the PPK's are the best! Then never run out of ammo, shoots like a long gun, and they never miss.
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Bond, James Bond.

All in good fun.
 
Originally Posted By: deadhorseedited to delete more comments.

Yup, nothin better than an AR. I hear they never miss.
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I will certainly agree with you on this one!

If you miss anything with MY AR, then YOU missed- not the gun!

At least three others that are on this forum have shot my rifle will tell you the same thing as well. I am in no way going to get rid of any of my bolt action rifles, and I have many, but if forced to sell all of my varminters but one it would be my AR-15 that would be the lone survivor. No question.
 
I never hunted with an AR, but the comfort factor for me is the reason I don't have one yet. I have a BAR, and like the pluses an auto provides, but the overall feel of an AR is just foreign too me. I have shot several at the range, and they group fantastic, and maybe it's because I'm a lefty, but when I shoulder it and use the sling, the mag is always hitting me. With my BAR I feel like I am closer to mother earth when I take a prone shot. Someday I will definitely have an AR, but those are my personal reasons for now. No offense to all the AR lovers.
I have a bolt, but I have occasional back issues, so the bolt gets the nod when Im hurting.[Montana 243]. I have shot a triple before a with a bolt action.
I am also a 243 nut, so when I do get an AR, it will be in 243.
Before I get the AR, Im going to try a Cooper.
 
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