Boy Punished for T-Shirt With Gun Image

ARCOREY +100 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

You described exactly the same situation I grew up in except I actually had my shotgun in the school for demonstrations for something during Ag class. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

KH
 
Alright. I'm back and have cooled off considerably. I apologize for obviously rude post that was a result of a rougher than normal day at work. My apologies go out to Cooter and any of his friends on PM. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I understand everyone's post regarding shirts that are patriotic and would wear one myself to work but I can also understand that a shirt that has a AR-15 on it is against the schools rules. The correlation between the patriotic shirt and the gang shirt is that they both have weapons on them. You can have a very patriotic shirt that has no weapons on it. Nobody in any pubic school would have a problem with a shirt with military insignias or tasteful messages and designs. A shirt that has a "military sidearm" pictured and "Special issue Resident Lifetime License _ United States Terrorist Hunting Permit _ Permit No. 91101 _ Gun Owner _ No Bag Limit" will not fly in a public or Private school for that matter. That is not patriotic in my opinion. My school has an American flag on the wall in our office that was given to us by the parents of a past student that served and died in the military in the Iraq offensive. It has a plaque below it dedicated to him with a story of his life. THAT is patriotic. A shirt proclaiming it's open season on killing terrorists is not. As much as I understand the sentiment behind it and would not have a problem dropping countless bombs on terrorist camps across the globe an elementary aged student wearing that in a public school setting is not appropriate. An adult wearing it while hunting is another situation entirely.

If one is to criticize the public schools, he needs to take a very close look at the entire system to see where the problems lie. Placing the blame solely on the teachers who impart the teaching is ludicrous. The 'No Child Left Behind' initiated by President Bush was well intended but severely under funded. Educating children who come from increasingly worse home-lives in a society geared more toward the families Xbox 360 than the students homework is what we see as teachers. Are their bad teachers? Sure, in every profession there are a few black sheep. Does the public school system has a disproportionately high percentage of bad employees? Absolutely not. If you look close you'll see the exact opposite.

Show me a job where you are required to obtain a 4 year degree out of your own pocket. Where your starting salary is $35,000 (thats starting salary for a teacher here in Arizona) and caps out at $55,000 after 25 years of service. Where every few years you are required to take college classes out of your own pocket to be able to continue working. Where everyone thinks you get summers off but in reality you are unemployed for 2 months and often have to go find summer work to pay the bills. Where you work between 50-60 hours a week, much of which is done at home and on holidays in a job where you get practically no respect. The list goes on. This isn't a sob story, this is reality. If you are a teacher you are doing it for reasons other than money. I have the credentials to teacher at a private school if I wanted to. I taught at the local community college for a spell and found it not to my liking.

People who make blanket statements like the poster did of 'government schools suck' is a slap to the face of thousands of hard working American men and woman who if they didn't do their job well you wouldn't be reading what I am typing right now. You should be thanking them for what they did not disparaging them with unfair comments.

On a different note- Not all school teachers are green fruit loops who are anti-gun anti-hunting people. I met another teacher in Snowflake, Arizona who is an incredible predator hunter and a great all around guy. Buy his DVD at allpredatorcalls.com

Nailm_AZ_Stylesm.jpg
 
My wife is an Assitant Principle in the public school system so I know a tad bit of what goes on everyday.

You can argue all you want, but prior to entering the school all students know the dress code and what is allowed and not allowed to take place in the school. The parents are also aware of the dress code and what is allowed and not allowed.

Fact of the matter is, patriotic, unpatriotic, who cares? The kid and parents KNOWINGLY violated school policy and they don't have a leg to stand on. No different than if little Jane brings a steak knife to school for her lunch. Yes it sucks that she is probably going to get suspended and sent home, but little Jane and her parents were well aware that KNIVES are not allowed in school.

Personally I think the parents should drop the lawsuit and whoop the boys ARSE for defying the authority of the school. But then again, the parents are obviously the problem anyway. Can any of you remember having the cajones to tell the Assistant Principal that you wouldn't do what he or she said? without the fear of somebody tearing you a new one when you got home?
 
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My wife is an Assitant Principle in the public school system so I know a tad bit of what goes on everyday.

You can argue all you want, but prior to entering the school all students know the dress code and what is allowed and not allowed to take place in the school. The parents are also aware of the dress code and what is allowed and not allowed.

Fact of the matter is, patriotic, unpatriotic, who cares? The kid and parents KNOWINGLY violated school policy and they don't have a leg to stand on. No different than if little Jane brings a steak knife to school for her lunch. Yes it sucks that she is probably going to get suspended and sent home, but little Jane and her parents were well aware that KNIVES are not allowed in school.

Personally I think the parents should drop the lawsuit and whoop the boys ARSE for defying the authority of the school. But then again, the parents are obviously the problem anyway. Can any of you remember having the cajones to tell the Assistant Principal that you wouldn't do what he or she said? without the fear of somebody tearing you a new one when you got home?



Amen brother and that should end it. I am as Patriotic as anyone. I did my time in combat and I do not have to prove anything to anyone in that arena. Little Johnny and his Mommy and Daddy knew the rules going in. If they didnt, then they did not care enough about their childs education to read the orientation paperwork prior to the start of school. This kind of stuff in any kind of an educational setting is nothing but a distraction. Like it or not, times have changed since the vast majority of us went to school and things that were not a problem for us are definetely a problem now. I would never have dreamed of questioning a teachers or principles authority when I went to school. Kids having no respect for authority is common place and we are reaping what we have sown. If little Johnny wants to show his patriotism and pride in his Uncles service, maybe he should have opted for a yellow ribbon pin.
 



Just wondering, how do you feel about the NEA and compulsory union membership?




If you are meaning forced, it is not forced because I am not a member and as far as it being encouraged, our system talked to us about it once and then left it up to us.
 
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I wonder if "a higher level of sensitivity" will stop the wearing of shirts with b*tches'n' ho's on them? Government schools suck.



Hey I bet you a case of that cheap beer you drink you look exactly like your avatar. Based solely on your senseless post you did a while ago I would guess your name is Cooter and you have no front teeth.

FYI- Shirts with b*tches'n' ho's on them typically are not allowed either as it conflicts with the anti-gang message schools are trying to get across. Shirts with weapons are not tolerated. Schools are responsible for creating a safe environment in all senses. If your son wears his patriotic Minute Men shirt with an M-16n on it, then the gang kid should be able to wear his Rollin Hard shirt with a kid hangin' out of his 66 Caprice with a gat in his hand. In the atmosphere we have now days they all must go.

I'm as patriotic as the next guy. I vote, work hard, drive an American made truck, hunt as often as possible, and have been conservative public 'government' school teacher for almost 2 decades. You honestly have no more insight into education and how it works than a baby on his mothers lap. 99% of public school teachers are people who have chosen a career not based on financial gain but on making difference in our society by educating kids. The work has long hours that do not stop once we leave campus. We have to endure many idiotic parents that have no more interest in their child's educational welfare beyond a mandatory parent-teacher conference once a year.

We get hammered by the liberal press and ignorant people like you because we are oftentimes not able to overcome the experiences a horrible home life provides. We can't force a kid to pay attention when his drunk father beat up his mother the night before and was taken away by the police. When Tommy comes to school having not been fed breakfast in his home and has trouble staying awake during math- the teacher is blamed oftentimes as his testing score is sub-par.

Get the hell off your lazy [beeep] and be a real parent who understands what makes public schools tick and stop posting ignorant ramblings. YOU are one of the reasons America and society in suffering. You are ignorant yet talk like you know your way around the place. How about shutting up and reading a book for a change?



Sheesh, I see why you call yourself "Hyper". Nobody personally attacked you or teachers in general. I don't believe the kid has a "right" to wear any particular shirt and he obviously broke the rules. He also showed disrespect to those in his authority by refusing to turn it inside out. Perhaps the "b*tches n hos" comment was over the top, but the sideways wide brimmed hats, gold chains, and baggy drawers are prevalent in the government schools, at least around these parts. The idiotic "hip hop" culture is embraced. The fear of being labelled a racist quells most criticism of that junk. I do know what makes government schools tick- MY TAX DOLLARS. When I say they suck, they suck in part because of the hundreds of billions that are being wasted. We spend more per pupil than any country on the planet and get less in return. When viewed from a strictly economic standpoint, they DO SUCK. Yet, in your following post we see you whining about them being "underfunded". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif When viewed from a cultural perspective and they revise history, force the religion of evolution on the students and cram the fag agenda down their throats they SUCK EVEN MORE. I was "educated" in government schools. The most valuable lesson I learned there was to NEVER put my own children in one. We sacrifice many luxuries to have two in private school and homeschool the other two. When I see the war being waged for our children's souls by the government schools and the teacher's unions THEY SUCK EVEN MORE. If you're life is so hard, change it. Don't come looking for more of my tax dollars to bail you out of your misery. That right there is the overriding theme of what is being taught in the government schools today- "If your life stinks, don't worry. The government will take care of you" and that is one more reason that THEY SUCK. We'll see whose students are doing more good in society in 10 to 20 years. Mine will be in ministry, be military officers or running companies and providing jobs while yours will be in jail, selling bait or hanging drywall for some union.

Signed,

Cooter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Excellent post Dawg! I can understand the frustration of dedicated teachers such as Hyper who unfortunately are working within a very broken system.

The very heart of the problem is that the public school system nationwide has become a moral cesspool that has forced our greatest treasure, the youth of our nation, to drink of its excrement.

The only thing that can turn the situation around is if concerned parent like you and I refuse to send our children to these wicked institutions, causing them to collapse under the weight of their great immorality.

Not many years ago administrators who have promoted such filth in our schools would have been brought up on criminal charges and imprisoned.

BOYCOTT IMMORAL PUBLIC SCHOOLS!
 
I must be lucky or you guys are living in the wrong place if all your schools are teaching the fag agenda, because I can tell you for a fact it ain't heppening here. Where I teach students are taught and expected to work hard, never has it been said just wait for a government handout.
 
Dawg,I don't always agree with you but dawg-gone-it,when you are right you are dead right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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I must be lucky or you guys are living in the wrong place if all your schools are teaching the fag agenda, because I can tell you for a fact it ain't happening here. Where I teach students are taught and expected to work hard, never has it been said just wait for a government handout.



You're lucky. My kids are in private--one religious and another special needs--b/c I'd never send them to Baltimore County public schools. If I lived in a smaller community in a red state then perhaps I would.

BTW, I agree that the boy should have obeyed the order to flip around his shirt and then let his folks take it up with the school. I think the school's policy is silly, but in the interest of full disclosure, had this been me in 1982 my pro-gun dad would have kicked the c%&p out of me for disobeying a school official, wrong or not.

I just hate to give an inch on this issue because so many people want to create a fear of guns as a basis to ban them.
 
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Show me a job where you are required to obtain a 4 year degree out of your own pocket. Where your starting salary is $35,000 (thats starting salary for a teacher here in Arizona) and caps out at $55,000 after 25 years of service. Where every few years you are required to take college classes out of your own pocket to be able to continue working. Where everyone thinks you get summers off but in reality you are unemployed for 2 months and often have to go find summer work to pay the bills. Where you work between 50-60 hours a week, much of which is done at home and on holidays in a job where you get practically no respect. The list goes on. This isn't a sob story, this is reality.



I was an apprentice electrician in the earley 90's. making 9 bucks an hour, fetching tools and material for anybody that needed them. Every arse-ache job gets handed to the low guy on the pole. I was lucky enough to run a 90lb jack hammer for a month straight, you have no idea, beleive me! Hand digging trench in frozen ground, working in the cold, heat etc. I had to pay for classes, books, etc. Then after working like a bastard for 4 years if you where lucky to be employed 12 month of the year, after gathering 8000 hours of on the job training, I was allowed to take the Journeymans test which I passed then got a raise to 15 dollars an hour, still under your 35K and have to retest every 2 years. I know experienced electricians that still cant bring in 35K a year, I wouldnt complain too much, you couldnt teach with out the lights on, and nothing to plug your computers into. A/C in the summers and heat in the winters....must be nice!


Nothing personal, you asked!
 
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Let me get this straight...

A shirt showing an image of a gun is inappropriate? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
(Let me guess, it might cause someone to bring an actual gun to school?) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

BUT, boys & girls wearing jewelry in their noses/lips/eyebrows/tongues is appropriate for school? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I sure am glad I grew up when I did!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Actually this school is a very small town-republican type school. We have a total of 530 some kids in our school. (freshmen, sophomore,junior, and seniors included) Almost every single teacher but one that I can think of is pro-gun.The gun Is inappropriate for school with everything that happens in the world today. Boys and girls wearin jewelry anywhere but the ear is not permitted either.
 
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Sensorship as a whole has gotten ridiculous. This has become the United States of the Offended. Parents have become friends to their children instead of parents. Discipline dissapeared when boys quit wearing belts and parents quit using them responsibly. This country has become so pansy assed it's not funny. I have seen kids wearing more offensive material in their Snoop Dogg and Marilyn Manson clothing than what was described above. I remember when we had rifles and shotguns in our trucks on school property during hunting season, gun stocks were an accepted woodshop project, and every boy carried a pocket knife, and not for protection. No, I'm not a hillbilly redneck that didn't receive a decent education. No I didn't go to school a million years ago, graduated 1991 to be exact. I went to public school, where I witnessed sex and drug use for the first time in my life. I had my rear end scalded with a belt when I stepped too far out of line, I went to a communtity college and hold a respectable job, own a home and am drug free. I am proud to say that I am a product of what the system was and what good parenting will do, before those who knew better and wanted to be their childs friend instead of being their parent got their way. I'd much rather see a patriotic, self respecting child in a crowded school than a Goth-looking, morbid miserable kid ready to self destruct and take all those around them with them when they decide to snap and try to be "remembered".


Cory you get a STANDING OVATION from me on this!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
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I wonder if "a higher level of sensitivity" will stop the wearing of shirts with b*tches'n' ho's on them? Government schools suck.



Hey I bet you a case of that cheap beer you drink you look exactly like your avatar. Based solely on your senseless post you did a while ago I would guess your name is Cooter and you have no front teeth.

FYI- Shirts with b*tches'n' ho's on them typically are not allowed either as it conflicts with the anti-gang message schools are trying to get across. Shirts with weapons are not tolerated. Schools are responsible for creating a safe environment in all senses. If your son wears his patriotic Minute Men shirt with an M-16n on it, then the gang kid should be able to wear his Rollin Hard shirt with a kid hangin' out of his 66 Caprice with a gat in his hand. In the atmosphere we have now days they all must go.

I'm as patriotic as the next guy. I vote, work hard, drive an American made truck, hunt as often as possible, and have been conservative public 'government' school teacher for almost 2 decades. You honestly have no more insight into education and how it works than a baby on his mothers lap. 99% of public school teachers are people who have chosen a career not based on financial gain but on making difference in our society by educating kids. The work has long hours that do not stop once we leave campus. We have to endure many idiotic parents that have no more interest in their child's educational welfare beyond a mandatory parent-teacher conference once a year.

We get hammered by the liberal press and ignorant people like you because we are oftentimes not able to overcome the experiences a horrible home life provides. We can't force a kid to pay attention when his drunk father beat up his mother the night before and was taken away by the police. When Tommy comes to school having not been fed breakfast in his home and has trouble staying awake during math- the teacher is blamed oftentimes as his testing score is sub-par.

Get the hell off your lazy [beeep] and be a real parent who understands what makes public schools tick and stop posting ignorant ramblings. YOU are one of the reasons America and society in suffering. You are ignorant yet talk like you know your way around the place. How about shutting up and reading a book for a change?



I for one that can talk from experience will honestly say public schools are unfortunately responsible for alot of the problems we see today. My wife is a teacher and tells me daily what goes on in school. When I was a kid that graduated in 81 if a student called a teacher a F,ing $itch that kid would have been kicked out of school forever. Not today. Two days detention. Gee, hurt my feelings or maybe kill you. I realize the way kids are brought up today and if the kids needing kicked out were kicked out enrollment would be cut by a third. What would you do with junk. I have no idea and not the school's problem or the rest of the kids. Sounds like a correctional facility problem to me.
 
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