Brass shot out?

F

fireguyty

New member
Guys,
I am trying to figure out what the deal is here.

Rifle: Desert Tactical Arms 338 Lapua Magnum
Brass: 2nd fired Hornaday Full length resized every time
Primer: Rem 9 1/2 M
Powder: RL 25
Bullet: Lapua Scener 300 G
Dies: Forester Micrometer and FL sizer, RCBS #14 shell holder

So I had a real sweet load with RL 25 for my 338. After my 2nd resizing my bolt lift got real heavy. It got warmer from when I developed the load, so after reading about RL 25's temperature sensitivity I blamed it on that and pulled like 55 of them.

A month later I go to do pressure and velocity test's with some new powders. I started at book minimum and loaded 1 shell in 1 grain increments up to max charge. I did this with 4831sc, Retumbo, H1000, Ramshot Magnum and Magpro just to see how they really stack up.

First up 4831 at minimum charge, heavy bolt lift! Discontinue, and move to H1000 same. This happened at minimum charge for all powders except Magnum which showed at the 2nd shell.

I figured it was my rifle, and I had a couple factory Black Hills, and they were buttery smooth bolt lift at velocity of 300 fps over any of the minimum charged loads I made.

By looking at the brass I can not identify where they are sticking in the chamber. I did have a 300 WSM that after I FL resized left a bulge just above the head, but those wouldn't even chamber (I fixed this problem). So I am familiar with this, and this is not the case here.

My only other thoughts are that my brass is done after the 2nd firing. Most that shoot this caliber use Lapua because they last longer, but this is ridiculous.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
 
Is the brass trimmed to length. I am also running into similar issues with my 308, I changed brass and no more issues. Is the brass shot out? Probably not. You could try to anneal the cases. Are the bullets seated out too far? Check OAL between the black hills and the hand loads. This could increase pressure. I am not an expert just providing some thoughts. I hope this helps.
 
a dumb suggestion but i had problems with my 22-250. i had to move my fl die down til it touched the shell holder. try chambering a piece of brass that has been shot. if its hard take a look at the bottom of the brass. on my 250 about a .25 in maybe more from the bottom there was a line of the brass. moved my die down and these chambered so much better.
 
Pierre:
The brass is trimmed every time, this rifle likes the bullet seated .003 out of lands.

Markley:
The shot brass is hard to chamber, I double checked the sizer die and it it going all the way up, and very slightly camming over. However, I think you may be onto something.

I had a problem with my 300 WSM a year ago. When I FL resized the brass was hard to chamber, and to pull out. Those did have that line or ring around the bottom with an obvious bulge. I fixed the problem by having a guy machine the shell holder down a bit thus allowing the FL sizer to go down a little further.

My lapua brass DOES have that line after it has been shot along with one just below the shoulder, but unlike my 300 it chambers resized brass just fine.

I did look into my RCBS shell holder specs and noticed that I have the #14 shell holder. RCBS uses this shell holder for Lapua brass and another, I think #35 for Norma brass. Mine of course is Hornady. I am gonna call RCBS and ask which I should be using.

I appreciate the thoughts, if there are any others please pipe up.
 
My first thought when I hear the statement " I full length sized and the brass chambers hard", is that the sizing die is not set up correctly and is not fully resizing the brass..
 
If you can't get the die down far enough. Grind a little bit off the face of the Shell Holder. Just a .001 or so at a time, until you can bump back the shoulder of the cartridge.
 
Originally Posted By: zillaMy first thought when I hear the statement " I full length sized and the brass chambers hard", is that the sizing die is not set up correctly and is not fully resizing the brass..

No, I think you misunderstood me.

Markley asked if the brass that had already been shot is hard to chamber, and I responded yes.

The prepared, loaded brass chambers just fine, but after firing, the bolt handle has a hard lift.

As far as it being a sizing issue, I agree, and think that my shell holder and die don't match up.
 
have you tried letting the spent round sit in the chamber for a bit before lifting the bolt. i don't know the cure but this happened in a rifle i owned onece. once the brass cooled down abit it lifted real easy
 
Ok, so I googled "what shell holder to use with Forester Dies?" and came up with a couple of guys that have a similar deal going on.

Apparently the Forester dies are designed to be use with their press which has no shell holder, and are not sizing properly when used in other presses with shell holders.

I'm gonna blame it on this, buy new Lapua brass, and an RCBS FL sizer die to match the shell holder (I have never had a problem with RCBS).

Having said that, I do like the Forester Micrometer seating die.

As always, you guys are always good help, and I appreciate it.
 
Hmmm. I have never heard of this going on. I have one Forster die, in 243, that I have had for several years and have no problems using it in my RCBS press, w/RCBS shell holder..

I found this on the Forster site"

Quote:CASE SIZING PROCEDURE
1. Install the die into any standard 7/8-14 thread reloading
press or Forster’s Co-Ax® Reloading Press so that it
makes contact with the shell holder when the ram is at its
uppermost position.
2. Tighten the Cross Bolt Die Lock Ring (G-10) with a #2
Phillips screwdriver.
3. Insert a case into reloading press.
4. Size the case by actuating the reloading press. (Ensure the
bottom of the die makes complete contact with the shell
holder.) This operation reduces the outside case diameter,
removes the spent primer, and expands the case neck inside
diameter. It also may stretch the case neck, so check the
overall case length and trim if necessary.
5. Remove the sized case from the die.
6. The case is now ready for priming and powder charge.

There are also instructions on lining up the expander ball and the vent hole. Full instructions here: http://www.forsterproducts.com/client_im...nstructions.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: zillaHmmm. I have never heard of this going on. I have one Forster die, in 243, that I have had for several years and have no problems using it in my RCBS press, w/RCBS shell holder..

I found this on the Forster site"

Quote:CASE SIZING PROCEDURE
1. Install the die into any standard 7/8-14 thread reloading
press or Forster’s Co-Ax® Reloading Press so that it
makes contact with the shell holder when the ram is at its
uppermost position.
2. Tighten the Cross Bolt Die Lock Ring (G-10) with a #2
Phillips screwdriver.
3. Insert a case into reloading press.
4. Size the case by actuating the reloading press. (Ensure the
bottom of the die makes complete contact with the shell
holder.) This operation reduces the outside case diameter,
removes the spent primer, and expands the case neck inside
diameter. It also may stretch the case neck, so check the
overall case length and trim if necessary.
5. Remove the sized case from the die.
6. The case is now ready for priming and powder charge.

There are also instructions on lining up the expander ball and the vent hole. Full instructions here: http://www.forsterproducts.com/client_im...nstructions.pdf

I read that too, but Google what I quoted up top.
 
Originally Posted By: fireguytyOriginally Posted By: zillaMy first thought when I hear the statement " I full length sized and the brass chambers hard", is that the sizing die is not set up correctly and is not fully resizing the brass..

No, I think you misunderstood me.

Markley asked if the brass that had already been shot is hard to chamber, and I responded yes.

The prepared, loaded brass chambers just fine, but after firing, the bolt handle has a hard lift.

As far as it being a sizing issue, I agree, and think that my shell holder and die don't match up.


Don't know if this could be the culprit.

Are you trimming your brass .010" shorter than the maximum length per specs?
Case in point. I had an 30/06 that if the case was not trimmed shorter than the Maximum case length I had stiff bolt LIFT upon firing.
What was happening was that with a Case trimmed to the Maximum length,, upon firing said round what little the case would grow / stretch would make the mouth of the case crimp in on the bullet causing high pressure and stiff bolt lift. The way I found this out was I was at the range and bitching about the stiff bolt lift and an old timer took a look at the case of one that gave me stiff bolt lift and said it looked like it was crimping in on the bullet when fired. He marked the case so as I would know which one it was and told me that when I got home to take the case and try and push a bullet into the case with my fingers point first. If it took a tiny bit of force to push it in and if it just dropped in as the base of the bullet pasted the very mouth of the case. The problem was because the way the chamber had been cut. He was right on and the bullet did just as he expected it would do.
That is when I started to trim every case every time I sized it. Never had that problem again.


Could this be why you are getting stiff bolt lift even at lower FPS than Factory ammo????
Not saying it is.
Sorry for being long winded.

DAB
 
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