Brush Fire/Critters What Happens?

Dogboy

New member
For those of you who have lived in areas where brush fires have burned, what has the impact been on your hunting areas?

Have you seen an increase in activity say where the yotes in a burn area have went into another?

Tell me what your experience has been?

As some of you may know the recent fire in the Cajon Pass/Bluecut fire was within 4 miles of my house. It was movin my way quickly, until firefighters got a handle on it.

I was working the fire, so I was watching these dozer operators drive their cats into the flames to make fire breaks and the choppers and air tankers make water drops over my head. What a spectacle to watch. SOME TRUELY BRAVE PUBLIC SERVANTS!!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I watched some good coyote/critter country go up in flames, just like some of you are watching fires in your areas now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Most of these areas I've scouted but not really hunted. They were good areas indeed. It will not personally impact my season, as there are so many areas up here to hunt.
 
Glad every thing came out OK dogboy. You wouldn't believe how much fun and excitment can be found running a Cat at one of those. Just a side note -- did you see Water Tender 125A (a big 4000 gal all-wheel-drive RO with deck gun) from Hinkley there? That was my baby for 8 years and we never missed a big one.
 
Phylogenisis, no sir I didn't. I was working traffic control near one of the command posts and was checking the locals who were evacuating Oak Hills Estates.

I saw alot of strike teams entering the area. At that moment we had fire on both sides of Interstate 15. I was on the westside and it was bad, but the eastside was even worse. There were hydrants near us so the engines could top off on their own. The water tenders were out in the sticks tending the engines there. That was where the 3 firemen got burnt. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

If you watched the news and saw those 3 firemen who were burnt, being air lifted out, that's where I was at. I saw myself on the news, I was standing near the brush truck that was blocking traffic for the LZ.

They had 5 dozers working just 1/2 mile south of where I was at. The air drops were directly ontop the dozers to cool them and the area down so they could work.

It was damn scary for awhile!!!!!!!!!!
 
Wow. I would envy the ringside seat except for the fact that your house was entirely too close.

My first big fire was in the Mark Twain National Forest around 76 or 77 (memory fuzzy due to it being the 70's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif ) running a Cat as 3rd row (clean-up guy). Couldn't see a thing beyond 15 yards away for a week, but had an adrenaline rush that didn't go away for months. My last big one was over 3 years ago since I moved here by the river and the FD's in the area don't have good volunteer/PCF programs.

My hats off to you guys in the Law Enforcement arena also. I never worked any large incident that you guys didn't do every thing (including way beyond the call of duty) to make things work.

Any hoo, glad it all worked out.l /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
This is just speculation.

My guess is that the predators will follow their prey. I think that a burned area would be barren of coyotes/predators until new foliage brings back their food source. I've been told that the plant-eating wildlife is very fond of the succulent new foliage that initially grows in a burned area.

Deer hunting this year in AZ may be easier this year. All I have to do is find the 1 water hole in the state and wait there. Of course I'll have to push my way to the front of the crowd of hunters waiting there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
The coyote will most definetely move from the areas burned, I think, like other animals, they have an allergy to being burned. The coyote tasty treats have obviously moved or been burned during the fire, most of them anyway. The prey animals will lose habitat of course, burrows, plant life and such will be useless for a time. But the desert is resilient, it'll survive with plant life and such growing in a short time, I've seen it here where we have fires every year. Many of the plants native to the desert are "resistant", not immune, to fire. Those coyotes and other predators will once again make those burned areas home in time.

Erosion follows those burns, the summer rains and such, if they come, will expose roots and such, the little critters will return to feed, the predators following. Some of the animals native to the burn areas have probably not left, desert burns rarely gain the momentum of say forest burns, where everything from the trees and undergrowth burn. Due to the makeup of the desert, the fire will burn from bush to bush, some of the intermediate area of ground will be untouched, those animals burrowing in the ground may have survived the initial blast. I think you'll be surprised at how fast the burn areas will bounce back.
 
Like Bob said, it is amazing how fast an area recovers from fire. 2 years ago during the summer we had a large fire here across an area I hunt deer and coyotes. Right after the fire, the adjoining areas had a heavier concentration of wildlife due to all the displaced critters. By the end of fall green grass was growing in some of the burned out spots and deer were trickling in to eat it. They were not moving back in yet but just grazing. Wildlife remained kind of thin for that year. I did not go in and call that area during the first year after the fire. I figured not much was living there still. The next fall I took a novice friend calling in the burn. In the first five minutes a pair responded. I let my friend shoot at the first one. He missed so I shot it on the run as the other bolted. Pup distress brought the second back and shot it too. Stayed on the pup distress. Another coyote started howling but would not show itself. Kept up the distress and it finally came out. Shot him too. More distress. Another started barking from way out. He was so far that the first three shot were hitting dirt in front of him and it did not scare him. 4th shot I used the bottom of the recticle and finally tipped him over.

Needless to say I was pleasantly surprised how the area recovered. My friend still can't figure out why 4 coyotes don't swarm every stand like that day. LOL Tried telling him how it's not always like this.

Anyway, it seems like prairie fire areas recover more quickly than forest.

Take care, Curt
 
Thanks guys, Curt I glad you said the adjacent areas around the fire seemed more active.

I looked over the fire area real good yesterday, what a mess. But in a couple of years lucky me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Curt,

Was that he same story where the guy said, "It's better than staying at home."? I may be thinking of someone elses story from about a year ago or so.
 
I was just watching a follow-up on the Yellowstone fires from about 8 years ago (and 5 yeays ago and last year) and other than really big trees, it really had recovered well. They were saying that total tree numbers were actually higher than 100 years ago due to the heavy undergrowth being burnt off. And that animal populations were very high.

So I guess I'm saying that after a couple good rains and some growing time I think you'll be back in yote country.
 
Originally posted by Curt:
[qb]Loco,could be. I know I've bored everybody with that story at least once. LOL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif [/qb]
No way Jose!!! It's a great story. Once drug a friend out to try calling. He was upset because he wanted to go after pheasants. Three 'yotes came a runnin' right off the bat and I missed the first one and the others dissapeared. He too thought they would always respond that way. But more than likey I responded with the same story you told it last time. My memory only works a month or so in arrears. (did I spell that right? Maybe I am always hearing the expression wrong and therefore, the misspell) lol
 
AZGFD release and good synopsis:


Wildfire History and Ecology

Except for changes in climate, wildfires probably had the largest single impact in shaping the ecology of the Colorado Plateau prior to Euro-American settlement. Whether lightning-caused or started by native peoples, wildfires were once quite common occurrences throughout the grasslands and forests of the Colorado Plateau. Major consequences of these frequent fires were the maintenance of an open forest structure in the region's middle-elevation forests, the prevention of tree encroachment into mountain meadows and grasslands, and in some areas the replacement of forested land with grassland or savannah.

Prior to white settlement, studies indicate that fires likely burned through the Plateau's extensive pinyon-juniper woodlands every 10-30 years, through the region's ponderosa pine communities every 2-10 years, and through mixed-conifer forests every 5-25 years. The much wetter and cooler spruce-fir forests atop the highest mountains and plateaus of the region probably went 150 years or more between fires.

The historic fire regimes changed dramatically with Euro-American arrival and settlement. Grazing removed much of the grassy fuels that carried frequent, surface fires; roads and trails broke up the continuity of forest fuels and further contributed to reductions in fire frequency and size. Because settlers saw fire as a threat, they actively suppressed it whenever they could. Initially, fire suppression was very successful because of low fuel loadings; but without fires to consume them, fuels have accumulated over time.

The continuing threat of fire led to an approximately 100-year history of fire suppression policies by land management agencies such as the United States Forest Service. These efforts have resulted in far less frequent fires, disrupting the natural cycles of the region's forests and resulting in many damaging ecological effects. Forests with historically frequent, low-intensity fires were those initially most affected. Pinyon-juniper woodlands, ponderosa pine forests, and drier mixed conifer forests shifted from a fire regime of frequent, surface fires to one of stand-replacing, high-intensity fires.

Fire suppression has contributed to the buildup of organic materials (fuels) on the forest floor. Logging has added heavy fuels in the form of limbs, treetops, and cull logs. In some areas, these heavy fuels have been removed by slash disposal (fuel treatment), prescribed fire, or firewood collection.

By the early 1900s, fire exclusion began altering forest composition and structure. The disruption of natural fire regimes has decreased the diversity of forested areas across the landscape. Frequent fires once killed conifer seedlings encroaching into forest meadows, maintaining numerous open parks in the region's highlands. Fire exclusion permits this encroachment, and meadow acreage has decreased significantly. Establishment of young trees in older stands has provided a fuel ladder for carrying fires into the canopy. With more stand-replacing fires, average stand age is reduced; the diversity inherent in old stands is lost.

Because of heavy fuel accumulations, fires that occur now are more intense and more difficult to contain. Certainly there are more larger fires and more catastrophic crown fires today than historically. On Southwestern forests, the number of fires burning more than 10 acres has increased each decade since the 1930's. The average size of fires since the 1970s has ranged from 14 to 16 acres per fire, double the average size of fires in the earlier decades of the 1940s to 1960s.





Rodeo-Chediski Fire
Impacts on Wildlife



It is important to note that ponderosa pine and pinyon-juniper habitats, and their associated wildlife populations evolved with fire – but typically smaller, more localized fires. However, these habitats and wildlife did not evolve with such fast-moving catastrophic events such as the Rodeo-Chediski Fire.

The ponderosa pine and pinyon-juniper habitats are home to around 268 species of wildlife ranging from whiptail lizards and big brown bats to elk and deer.

Wildfire impacts on wildlife can be both negative in the short term, and positive in the long term, depending on a number of factors. Typically, larger mammals such as deer, elk, bear and lion will move out of the path of a fire – depending on how fast the fire moves. We say typically – but this is not a typical fire. These fires moved fast. Whether or not that resulted in increased wildlife mortality, we can only speculate.

Most wildlife pushed out (or underground) by a fire will move back into the burn area once the active fire passes. We do know that elk especially have already been seen in burned over areas. Whether the wildlife stay is dependent on available food, cover and water.

Many smaller mammals and most reptiles will burrow underground. Their ability to survive the fire, at least initially, is dependent on how hot the fire burns. With many fires, burrowing into the earth even six inches will protect animals from fires reaching up to 3,000 degrees. It is possible that a fast-moving fire might have “baked” the earth less, resulting in good survivability of the wildlife that burrow to escape fire.

Rabbits, birds and other small animals have also been seen in the burned over areas.

This is also the time of year when there is a host of newborn wildlife, such as elk calves and deer fawns, are on the ground. With a fast-moving fire, it is possible that there was high newborn mortality, especially for the larger mammals. However, due to the drought, elk calf and deer fawn crops were exceptionally low this year.

This is also the bird-nesting season. Undoubtedly, most of those nests have been lost, although the adult birds most likely flew away from the fire.

Fire can be a boon or bane for native fish populations. A large-scale fire will sometimes result in fish-killing slurry when hard rains follow the flames. The rains will wash burned materials, as well as now exposed soil, into drainages and this can scour out both native and nonnative organisms. However, such scouring could also set up good conditions for reintroducing native fish. An example is the Dude Fire when native Gila trout were reintroduced into Dude Creek.

Ambient heat from raging wildfires can raise water temperatures to lethal levels for fish. After a fire, the lack of canopy could drastically result in water temperatures rising beyond fish tolerances for fish growth, spawning or even survival.

However, sediments washed into major impoundments can provide a nutrient surcharge to those waters for growing fish. That happened with the Lone Fire when the ash and other sediments washed into Apache, Canyon and Saguaro lakes.

Those are simplified, short-term impacts.

In the long term, some fires can be beneficial to wildlife populations. If a fire burns in a mosaic or patchwork pattern – leaving parts of the forest untouched – a host of wildlife species will eventually benefit once there is sufficient rain for plants to grow.

As a rule of thumb, climax stage mature vegetation does not necessarily provide a wealth of food sources for a diverse number of wildlife, although some species are dependent on older age class forests. New growth can be very high in nutritional value.

Now it is up to Mother Nature. If we get rain, there will be a tremendous green up in the burn area. Studies have shown that the grasses and forbs that grow in burn areas are exceptionally high in nutrition. If there is no rain, they there could be significant delayed wildlife mortalities.
 
Dogboy, I can only tell you from my personal experence. I've lived and hunted the southwest all my life and seen many fires over the years. Without question, the animals return quickly to a burn area and the casualties are minimal. Wildlife knows the fire is coming long before it gets there. The ones that can run away from it do so, others go under ground. For example, I was night hunting ( when it was legal to light from a vehicle) up around Gorman years ago after a big fire. In one night, we took several gray fox and cats out of that burn area. You may remember the fire we had a couple years back, the Arrowhead fire, it burned all the way down to the outskirts of Apple Valley. That fall, I took cats, fox and coyotes out of that same area. I've hunted those hills right behind were you live and I'd be willing to bet if you hunt it this fall you'll do well. By the way, try to get a deer tag for the area. You can bet the deer are going to be right back in the burn eating those little green shoots. Good Hunting
 
at the area I hunt a fire burned alot of land, but the grass grew tall the next year, and the coyotes were thick, it was like ten coyotes for every 2 acres, or so it see /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif med.
 
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