bullet run-out

skeetlee

One thing I do is lube the inside of my case necks before I size them. I twist the case down into a 35mm film canister filled with #6 bird shot and Lockeze dry graphite powder. That seems to take a lot of the effort out of the expander ball when it sizes the neck. Once a year I add a little graphite to the shot.
The other thing I'd consider, if having zero runout was my goal, would be to have the bullet seater be a perfect match to the bullet I was using so it kept it vertical as it presses into the case. I'm guessing that's what a "collet die" does (I don't have any experience with them, sorry).
There's nothing wrong with trying to get your reloads consistent. I would say if your cases seem more uniform after being fired once, you might as well skip all the uniforming (other than length trimming) until they've been fire-formed to your chamber. Seems like that's not going to accomplish much. I found that new brass (Win. and Rem.) isn't very uniform myself.
I don't see anything wrong with the way you're going at it. You'll learn a lot if you keep a data book and test targets.
 
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"...Also, the Redding competition seater is no better than the Bonanza Bullet seater at less than half the cost of the Redding.



I think the Forster (Bonanza) seater is better, and here's why - they are both mechanically equal, but the numbering on the Forster micrometer head makes sense, and the numbering on the Redding does not.

If you want to seat the bullet 5 thou longer and the micrometer head says 15, with the Forster (Bonnza) you set the dial at 20 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ...

... with the Redding, you set it at 10 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

Quote:
"... be careful for what you wish for...



... because you will have to pay for it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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A lot of that corrects due to the spin imparted by the tri[ down the barrel. The cause can be and usually is a combination of things. Neck wall thickness being uneven is only one. I used to check that by rollong a loaded round over a mirror, I bought one of them case gageing tools a coule years ago, it is a pita to set up and use so it has been in the box since the first time I used it. And like I said bullet spin imparted by the rifleings will correct a lot if not all the percived runout.
 
While not being a 'benchrest' quality shooter, I'm a little like you and want the best loads I can work up...

I found that after getting a Forster press and a set of their benchrest dies, I have very little concerns with brass being out of spec for the most part...after it has been sized the first time...

I will periodically roll my loads across a mirror and have yet to notice any runout on my .204s and .223s... It may be there, but too small for me to see it and I'm not that interested in buying another gadget to cause me to worry...Plus, they all shoot up to my standards... "Minute of Prairie Dog" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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The neck turning tool is the last tool to get - even in benchrest, many BR chambers now cut with "No turn" necks.

Neck turning will show no improvement in "off the rack" rifles, and invite more problems than it "solves".

I say this, while being the owner of three neck turning lathes, so I have the tee-shirt.

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Neck turning will help to size each case consistently, especially when using a neck or bushing die. Helps to control the amount of pressure needed to seat the bullet.

Too loose or too tight of a neck will affect accuracy as well.
 
There's tools to check runout in loaded rounds but only one that fixes it. It's made by H&H Industries, Albany, Oregon I've got one and it works well and it's easy to use, and not too expensive

But I think Jack's right--Only if your shooting a custom BR rifle can you make dealing with Runout and Neck Turning pay.
 
Well I said I would be back to bore you so here goes .....

I have used and own several brands of 7/8"-14 dies including RCBS, Hornady, Lee, Redding, and Forster. Also have some Wilson hand dies used with an arbor press.

When using any brand of 7/8"-14 dies all the manufufactures will tell you after you have made all your adjustments to lock the ring securing it to the press. This would be ok if there was no play when the ram comes through the bushing, the ram was in perfect alignment with the hole in the top of the presss, there was no play in the 7/8"- 14 TPI, and the die was perfectly straight. Because of manufacturing tolerances and more so because of the accumulation of tolerances it would be a rare occurance.

To properly set your 7/8"-14 die first screw it into the press at the depth you want then snug the lock ring. If you can't wiggle the die back and forth and side to side then loosen it a little at a time until you can. Now you have some play in the shell holder and the die which will allow the whole system a better chance to self align. I have done this now for several years and it does make a more concentric case. I can't take credit for this set-up and I wish I could tell you were credit is due but it has been to long ago for me to remember. I think it was from Redding, one of the Sierra techs, or maybe one of the guys at Sinclair.

If loading for a bolt action the best die I have found that gives me the least neck run-out is the Lee Collet Die. It doesn't mater which seater you use if you don't have a concentric neck to begin with. Since the Lee Collet die does not touch the body of the case you will also need a shoulder bump die (Redding makes one). The bump die will only be used every 4th or 5th loading so your case doesn't get to tight in the chamber.

There is a start. Now if you want to load the best ammo you can you need to do a lot of case prep. Start with a new lot of 100 pieces of brass (you will probably end up with 60 to 70 that will make your best loads).

Trim them all to the same length, deburr the flash holes, and uniform the primer pockets. Next weigh the cases. I will sort into lots that are within +or- two-tenths of a grain. Next with a ball mic check the neck thickness at several locations around the neck. If the variance is .001 or less then neck turning is probably not going to help because you are going to have a looser fit in the neck area of the chamber. If the variance is more than .001 then proper neck turning will probably help. Turn the cases so that you are cleaning up about 75 to 80 percent of the neck.

Hint: You can buy Norma, IMI (if you can find it) brass and usually not have to deburr the flash holes and have a better chance that the necks will be more uniform.

Now the case prep is done and you can start on load delvelopment.

In short.. how much work do you want to do? I am probably in the minority but every time I pull the trigger I am confident in knowing that I have assembled the best ammunition I can. If I miss the target I don't have to worry about the ammo, it was just me.

AND... Ackleyman made a true statement as I now am acquainted with the likes of Shilen, Pac-Nor, Hart, McGowan, Dan Carey, and a few others.

Take it to what ever extent you want if you are enjoying it. I do and I love it.

GOOD LUCK AND GOOD SHOOTING
 
If funny you say this Buckhalljr. Yesterday while loading I was playing around with the new rcbs tool i bought. What i found was while seating the bullets with my redding dies. I had very minimal bullet run out if i didn't lock down the seat adj. If i did lock down the seat adj My run out was around 4 thou. I guess by not locking the seater adj down it allows it self to self true? I dont know this for sure, but this is what i found. Lee
 
Guess what. I am not surprised. Make notes in your log book for future reference. You may get old someday and need a refresher.

The main place to not do a total lock down is die to press. This applies to both the sizing die and seater die. You can use the same RCBS tool to check neck run-out.

Sounds like you are on your way. Ain't it fun.
 
Quote:
Quote:
Lee If you want a gadget to play with. buy a neck turn tool
and forget about the rest. I think you are worrying about to much.
Mike /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif



I will disagree on that.

The neck turning tool is the last tool to get - even in benchrest, many BR chambers now cut with "No turn" necks.

Neck turning will show no improvement in "off the rack" rifles, and invite more problems than it "solves".

I say this, while being the owner of three neck turning lathes, so I have the tee-shirt.

.



Exactly! The last tool I would consider is a neck turning tool to improve accuracy for factory rifles. The only time they can be of value is if a chamber is cut specifically for a neck turned case.
 


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