Bullet Seating - Determining depth?

T

The Famous Grouse

New member
Folks, I've read a couple of articles on bullet seating, but they all seem to rely on having specialized gages to determine where the lands are.

A friend of my father's had a method for working this out by seating a bullet in an empty case, not very far, just so it was in and straight. Then he'd "soot" the bullet over a candle until it turned black.

Now from there, he'd put the empty cartridge in the rifle and from the marks that the lands left in the soot on the bullet, he could somehow determine what the seating depth of the bullet should be.

Of course, the problem is that I only saw him do this once and I was probably 15 so I was to dumb to know what he was doing and now I don't recall the process. Now, the old gent is long passed, but he must have known something because he took my father's Savage 22-250 from so-so to absolute tack driver in one session by working up some loads and determining the proper seating.

From my very spotty description of the technique, does thisring a bell for anyone? Does it work reliably as a way to determine the position of the lands and therefore the bullet seating depth or is obsolete or inaccurate?

Can anyone direct me as to how to determine bullet seating depth without buying a specialized set of tools?

Thanks.

Grouse
 
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in the old nosler reloading manual i have there is a "cheaper" version on how to do it....take a case that has already been fired from your gun...get whatever bullet you plan on using...color the whole bullet with a black magic marker...put the bullet in the already fired case..chamber the round...slowly close the bolt...the bullet will seat against the lands and where it has slid down in the case the black from the marker will be scraped...take it all out...put the bullet back in the case up to the line where it stopped when you chambered it....measure that..that is your depth to the lands...then you can take whatever off you need to...i start mine out at .15 off the lands....but i also use the hornaday Lock and load OAL guage...but this serves the same pourpose really

hope that all made sense
 
Exactly how I find my depth, only I use a Bic lighter.
Seat the bullet long, measure the OAL, smoke the bullet, and chamber it. As you extract it, push in on the case to keep it coming straight back. Try and get it out w/o scuffing the bullet. Look for the marks from the lands, measure OAL again, and repeat at that length, and so on. Neck tension plays a role also. Too little and the bullet sticks, too tight and the bullet won't seat itself "gracefully". My match ammo I start with a square mark on the bullet, which is about .030" or so into the lands. On hunting ammo, you don't wanna play there. The key to all this is to find a reference point to be able to always measure from, which would be a point that's JUST touching the lands. Then you'll be able to reliable find .010", .020" etc. off the lands.
 
We have a winner! The technique you guys are describing, must be it!

OK, now we're cooking with gas. I'm going to do some work this weekend at the bench and see how I do. I may be back.

Thanks guys.

Grouse
 
I use to use the "black marker" method, but now I don't use anything.

I just take a pair of pliers, put a little crimp on the neck, seat the bullet. I then try to pull the bullet out with my finger, if it doesn't move then I am good to go.

I then shove the casing into the chamber and close the bolt hard, then rotate the bolt 3 times. Then carefully pull the casing out and mic the length from the ogive. Then repeat several times to make sure the reading are the same.

All the black marker or soot from candle shows, is it touch the rifling, if you start with the bullet just verily into the casing then it's going to hit the rifling's anyway. I haven't use the 'black marker" method for probably 20 yrs now.
 
I used this method for the first few years I reloaded. Very slightly bend in the case mouth to put tension on the bullet so it does'nt slide when removing. You can do this easily by putting the case mouth on the table at a 45 deg. angle and pushing down--trial and errror--It may take a few cases to get the desired fit. It works and its cheap - I like my stony point much better though. It takes all the guess work out of it. Good Luck
 
Not trying to be a wise arse, but is VERILY a word? Maybe a combination of two words? Just yankin your chain, good info here.
 
Here is an easy way, place bullet long in a case, chamber, take cleaning rod[ with a tip that will go flat on bullet tip] insert into bore just touching bullet tip, at the crown take a razor blade and make a mark on the rod, remove case and bullet,[ hope it dont stick] close bolt, insert rod till touching bolt face, make another mark on the rod, measure the two marks, oal for that bullet. Cheap simple and crude, but it works. ed
 
How do you guys stop the plastic tip tingy from melting when you use heat to soot your bullet? I ruined 5 or 6 and can't figure it out.
 
ANGCorsair, If you are 'smoking' the bullet, the tip is of no consequence.... You will want to measure off the ogive...that point where the front shoulder of the bullet hits the lands of the rifling...

Also, I'd say you are holding the bullet too far away from the candle flame and for too long...spin the bullet fast, just touching the flame, or if you have an old Carbide lamp around, that will work the best...

I have on old device for blackening the front sights of pistols from when we were shooting some of the police matches, but can't find carbide rocks anymore locally...
 
Originally Posted By: ANGCorsairHow do you guys stop the plastic tip tingy from melting when you use heat to soot your bullet? I ruined 5 or 6 and can't figure it out.

Like I said, I use a Bic lighter. Hold the bullet just above the flame, not in it, you're trying to smudge it, not bake it. A 360 twirl and done. Two seconds.
 
Sorry Turtle. It was early and I attempted humor. Thanks though for the excellent response. I probably should have included a smilie.
 
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Originally Posted By: ANGCorsairHow do you guys stop the plastic tip tingy from melting when you use heat to soot your bullet? I ruined 5 or 6 and can't figure it out.

Unless you have a bullet comparitor won't you need the tip to measure to? I tried that bullet in the case deal years ago and never could make it work, sure it does though. Now I simply run a cleaning rod down the barrel to the bolt face and mark the rod, at the muzzle, with a vary fine magic marker, pencil does work also. Then remove the bolt and drop a bullet into the chamber and hold it there, new pencil will work and so will a wood dowel. Run the cleaning rod back to the tip of the bullet and mark the rod again. Distance between the two lines is the seating depth. Someone above mentioned a similar method. Now that you have the measurement, use THAT bullet to set the seating die. Use a different bullet with different ogive position and you'll only be close. Save that case to tweek the distance off the lands.
 
Originally Posted By: alfExactly how I find my depth, only I use a Bic lighter.
Seat the bullet long, measure the OAL, smoke the bullet, and chamber it. As you extract it, push in on the case to keep it coming straight back. Try and get it out w/o scuffing the bullet. Look for the marks from the lands, measure OAL again, and repeat at that length, and so on. Neck tension plays a role also. Too little and the bullet sticks, too tight and the bullet won't seat itself "gracefully". My match ammo I start with a square mark on the bullet, which is about .030" or so into the lands. On hunting ammo, you don't wanna play there. The key to all this is to find a reference point to be able to always measure from, which would be a point that's JUST touching the lands. Then you'll be able to reliable find .010", .020" etc. off the lands.


ok guys, would putting the case with the bullet seated into the press, and the running the seating die down until it touches the bullet and locking the lock ring, be better than measuring oal? i have had oal lengths vary with the same bullets. like the bullets themselves are a little bit different.
 
Sure that works, but you still have to find the length you're looking for first. I use the same bullet over and over first to establish seating depth. I measure from the base to ogive after that.
 
I use an OAL length gauge and a bullet comparator.. i used to the smoked bullet deal, the mark a cleaning rod deal, and the split a case mouth/insert a bullet & chamber method.. The length guage and comparator are the most accurate i have found.. I have a Stony Point [now Hornaday] length gauge and comparator.. The trick is to insert a flat topped jag on a cleaning rod so you can feel the bullet hit the lands..
 
I take an empty (unprimed) case of the cartridge I want to load, and cut 3 slots from the case mouth down to just into the shoulder with the finest cutting wheel I can find on my dremel. I then full length resize the case, then take the bullet I want to use and insert it into the case mouth, then chamber it. When I take it out that is my maximum cartridge length. I usually back off from this dimension about .030 then do .010 increments out until i reach the max to find my best OAL. This way it is easy to check different bullets, and is quick easy and reusable.
 
I am confused. So If I color the bullet, push it into the case by hand, (just enough for the case to hold onto the bullet)then chamber the round, when the bullet hits the lands it will push the bullet down into the case. This causes the case to scrape away the black marker. Why do you need to color the bullet? Once you chamber the round, the lands push the bullet into the case, then you measure the length of the round and that should be the distance to the lands right? What purpose does coloring the bullet serve?
 
A lot of time the bullet will get stuck at the lands and you will have to push it back out with your cleaning rod...Once you set it back in the case to the scraped off line, to get a true measurement, you will need to measure to the ogive of the bullet, rather than the nose of the bullet..

Not as complicated as it sounds...hopefully the lands with also leave marks in the coloring to show you where the ogive is located, if you don't have a comparator..
 
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