Just started reloading. When working on a starting load. I noticed that some of the bullets where seating harder than the others. And would vary in length about .015 (long) when seating harder. I started with new brass and ran them through the FL die. Trimmed and chamfered inside and out. The seating die is a forester ultra micrometer. Do I need to turn the necks? I checked a few and they vary about a .001.
BULLET SEATING?
- Thread starter Beni
- Start date
odawgp
New member
15 thou is a lot (not really) but could mean the difference between a 10 and an X probably no difference in dead or not.
sounds like the neck tension is varying from case to case
someone who worries about that kinda stuff will be along
I would shoot the short ones for group then toss a couple of longer ones in there to see if it truly makes much if any difference
then go from there
sounds like the neck tension is varying from case to case
someone who worries about that kinda stuff will be along
I would shoot the short ones for group then toss a couple of longer ones in there to see if it truly makes much if any difference
then go from there
Last edited:
I'm measuring from the base to the tip. The die is brand new. 60 gr. v-max. When they come out long. I was able to dial them down and get them all to the same length. But I shouldn't have to do this for every round. Should I. I pulled out five random bullets from the box and they where .880 to .867. Is this normal?
coyote control
New member
All my dies are Forster and I had the same thing happen as you are saying.
But I cured the problem by; seating the bullet half way, then rotating the case half way, then seat the bullet completely down. This keeps the bullet more in line with the case and less "run out".
Every time I had a bullet seat hard, it invariably would have a large "run out" and be seated to long.
But I cured the problem by; seating the bullet half way, then rotating the case half way, then seat the bullet completely down. This keeps the bullet more in line with the case and less "run out".
Every time I had a bullet seat hard, it invariably would have a large "run out" and be seated to long.
Powerfisher
New member
I have found that bullets arent as exact as we are led to believe. The weight changes a tad and so will the length. Like odawgp mentioned, it may make a difference when shooting @ paper but, dead iz dead and if your shooting at game, I dont think it will matter at all. If you change the brand of bullet, you will have to change your seating depth as well. Even if you are using the same weight bullet. For instance, I use Hornady, Nosler and Sierra for my 30.06. They are all the same weight but are different lengths so I have to adjust my seating depth every time I change brands. I have made a dummy bullet for each one and have recorded my information on paper. The Hornadys have crimp marks, I ignore them and make sure the distance to the lands is correct. Just my $.02.........Happy Reloading.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: BeniI'm measuring from the base to the tip. The die is brand new. 60 gr. v-max. When they come out long. I was able to dial them down and get them all to the same length. But I shouldn't have to do this for every round. Should I. I pulled out five random bullets from the box and they where .880 to .867. Is this normal?
You can't get an accurate measurement of seating depth by measuring to the tip of the bullet because the bullets aren't the same length. You have to measure to the ogive of the bullet.
You are "dialing them down" to get the same overall length of the cartridge, but you are actually causing an inconsistent seating depth of the bullets.
Here is the closest picture I have of the measurement you need:
It's a bump gauge in a comparator body and it's used to measure case length to the shoulder. A bullet comparator does the same thing, but it measures from the ogive of the bullet in a loaded round.
I'll find a better picture later.
You can't get an accurate measurement of seating depth by measuring to the tip of the bullet because the bullets aren't the same length. You have to measure to the ogive of the bullet.
You are "dialing them down" to get the same overall length of the cartridge, but you are actually causing an inconsistent seating depth of the bullets.
Here is the closest picture I have of the measurement you need:
It's a bump gauge in a comparator body and it's used to measure case length to the shoulder. A bullet comparator does the same thing, but it measures from the ogive of the bullet in a loaded round.
I'll find a better picture later.
Last edited:
coyote control
New member
Beni,
The comparator works very well - I don't know how many years I've been using one, but I got it shortly after Sinclair came out with them.
Good Luck
The comparator works very well - I don't know how many years I've been using one, but I got it shortly after Sinclair came out with them.
Good Luck
Powerfisher
New member
Why dont the reloading manuals tell you to measure to the ogive? Heck, I didnt even know what the ogive was till I got on this site. When I make my dummy bullets, I just seat the bullet in an empty case, put a threaded bolt in from the empty primer pocket, push the round into the chamber and turn the bolt till I feel the bullet touch the lands. Remove the dummy round, measure and record the information. Works for me but I didnt even know what I was measuring for. I just didnt want the bullet to be too long or too short.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
The COAL numbers that are published in loading manuals are to insure that the round will fit in the magazine. They have nothing to do with distance to the lands.
Jack
Jack
TrapShooter12
Member
Originally Posted By: PowerfisherWhy dont the reloading manuals tell you to measure to the ogive? Heck, I didnt even know what the ogive was till I got on this site. When I make my dummy bullets, I just seat the bullet in an empty case, put a threaded bolt in from the empty primer pocket, push the round into the chamber and turn the bolt till I feel the bullet touch the lands. Remove the dummy round, measure and record the information. Works for me but I didnt even know what I was measuring for. I just didnt want the bullet to be too long or too short.
How do you know that you got an accurate measurement like that? What happens if your casing backs out abit as your pushing the Bullet forward with the screw.
How do you know that you got an accurate measurement like that? What happens if your casing backs out abit as your pushing the Bullet forward with the screw.
Powerfisher
New member
Thought about that when I first started. Very, very carfully. I put on my readers so I can watch the case as I turn the bolt in, hold the case in the chamber with a thin screwdriver and turn the threaded bolt (it turns in very easy) till I feel just a hint of resistance. When I extract the dummy round, I mark the bullet and do it over again several times untill I am happy. Now that I have learned a few things, I know I have done this the hard way. But, it works for me and I make pretty clovers when I shoot paper and as long as I do my part, my rifles perform well in the field. If I extract a live round from the chamber, I do look at the bullet for any marrs or marks made when I chambered the round. I see nothing so I know its not too long. Is this a BAD IDEA? I know reloading isnt rocket science but it iz bullet science. Please let me know if what I have/am doing is wrong cuz the last thing I want is to make a critical or fatal error. Thanks.
Last edited:
Happy_Hunter
New member
HI,
All the guys have already said the right thing about measuring from the ogive. If you want to load consistant rounds then one of the first things to get is a Sinclair comparator.
I'm still interested in your comment about some seating harder than others. Given you are using one of the better seating dies that delivers an aligned pill to the neck I feel you may have inconsistant neck tension. Thats bad for accuracy and the hard neck brass inferes early failure due to cracking.
I suppose there are a couple of things to say before I go any further. Excess neck tension, eccentric projectiles, neck turning, neck sizing: all this is focussed on squeezing out a bit more accuracy, but if you have a shop bought bolt rifle and you are taking shots under 200 yards at a 4" plate then even without all this hocus-pocus you'll still hit the plate if you do your part. So if you are predator hunting then you have 'em nailed with what you have already got.
Having said that, I only have shop bought rifles and as a hobby I choose to make the best ammo I can make with the resources I have. On that basis, some time ago I also found that some rounds were seating hard and that there was inconsistant seating depth. I bought a Sinclair comparator to measuire from the ogive so I knew where I was starting from and a hand held propane torch to anneal the necks. I did a fair bit of reading and found that if I heated the necks in a Lee case holder in a battery drill until the necks got a slight blue hue and dunk 'em in water then that was all the heat that was needed. Those two devices solved my inconsistant neck tension issue.
Some time later another guy got it into my head that if the projectile is not dead in line and straight along the axis of the round then that can cause inaccuracy too. I bought an RCBS case measuring tool to measure this new found scourge to accuracy, a Redding Competition seating die ('cause I coudln't get a Foster)to ensure straight insertion of the pill and a neck turner to ensure the neck dimension didn't offset the pill due to irregularity in neck wall thickness. Note* I was told by those that know way more than me that if you use a neck turner (K&M is a good one) you should use the K&M expander before neck turning.
I have rotated the case half way through seating a pill and I note that Barnes recommend that proceedure, but with a good seating die there is at least less need for that to be done because they drive the pill straight to start with.
I would say though that all this is a bit of a waste if you FL resize. That amount of case expansion that goes on just overrides all the work that you put in. I would also say that I have had trouble with a neck sized case not chambering quickly and missing a shot.
My next step is to use bushing dies. It never ends, but my wife knows what I want every birthday and christmas.
It all comes down to working out if you want to make the best ammo on the block or do you want to hit a 4" plate at 200 yards. You don't make it any deader by hitting a 1" coin at 200 yards, but cricky it makes you feel good.
All the guys have already said the right thing about measuring from the ogive. If you want to load consistant rounds then one of the first things to get is a Sinclair comparator.
I'm still interested in your comment about some seating harder than others. Given you are using one of the better seating dies that delivers an aligned pill to the neck I feel you may have inconsistant neck tension. Thats bad for accuracy and the hard neck brass inferes early failure due to cracking.
I suppose there are a couple of things to say before I go any further. Excess neck tension, eccentric projectiles, neck turning, neck sizing: all this is focussed on squeezing out a bit more accuracy, but if you have a shop bought bolt rifle and you are taking shots under 200 yards at a 4" plate then even without all this hocus-pocus you'll still hit the plate if you do your part. So if you are predator hunting then you have 'em nailed with what you have already got.
Having said that, I only have shop bought rifles and as a hobby I choose to make the best ammo I can make with the resources I have. On that basis, some time ago I also found that some rounds were seating hard and that there was inconsistant seating depth. I bought a Sinclair comparator to measuire from the ogive so I knew where I was starting from and a hand held propane torch to anneal the necks. I did a fair bit of reading and found that if I heated the necks in a Lee case holder in a battery drill until the necks got a slight blue hue and dunk 'em in water then that was all the heat that was needed. Those two devices solved my inconsistant neck tension issue.
Some time later another guy got it into my head that if the projectile is not dead in line and straight along the axis of the round then that can cause inaccuracy too. I bought an RCBS case measuring tool to measure this new found scourge to accuracy, a Redding Competition seating die ('cause I coudln't get a Foster)to ensure straight insertion of the pill and a neck turner to ensure the neck dimension didn't offset the pill due to irregularity in neck wall thickness. Note* I was told by those that know way more than me that if you use a neck turner (K&M is a good one) you should use the K&M expander before neck turning.
I have rotated the case half way through seating a pill and I note that Barnes recommend that proceedure, but with a good seating die there is at least less need for that to be done because they drive the pill straight to start with.
I would say though that all this is a bit of a waste if you FL resize. That amount of case expansion that goes on just overrides all the work that you put in. I would also say that I have had trouble with a neck sized case not chambering quickly and missing a shot.
My next step is to use bushing dies. It never ends, but my wife knows what I want every birthday and christmas.
It all comes down to working out if you want to make the best ammo on the block or do you want to hit a 4" plate at 200 yards. You don't make it any deader by hitting a 1" coin at 200 yards, but cricky it makes you feel good.
p5200
New member
On the .204 cal. the best way is to try different C.O.A.L. lengths since measuring to the lands usually doesn't leave enough bullet in the case and are to long for the mag any way. Is this correct? I can measure to the lands With my Savage 10fp .223 and Tikka t3 lite in 25-06 though.
Happy_Hunter
New member
p520,
I'm not sure that altering COL will affect too much if you are .050" or more from the lands. Maybe try a different projectile that is suited to the twist in your firearm. I know the Sierra BallisticKings are long and do seat in the lands of my two 22-250s. Also, for some unknown reason I can get within acceptable distance of the lands with simple little Hornady Soft Points too???
I'm not sure that altering COL will affect too much if you are .050" or more from the lands. Maybe try a different projectile that is suited to the twist in your firearm. I know the Sierra BallisticKings are long and do seat in the lands of my two 22-250s. Also, for some unknown reason I can get within acceptable distance of the lands with simple little Hornady Soft Points too???
Last edited: