CALF DISTRESS FOR COYOTES. WHAT YA THINK?
- Thread starter CaliCoyoteCaller
- Start date
possumal
New member
You shouldn't use any call where the landowner doesn't want you to use it. I have never heard of anyone thinking it might be unethical to use a sound to call in coyotes. In this part of the world, I have had no issues at all using any sound when calling coyotes.
What really shakes up cattle and farmers around here is for 5 or 6 big coyotes taking down a big calf or attacking a cow that is calving. We killed 8 coyotes off the farm I mentioned earlier in this thread, and the farmer's loss of calves went down dramatically. That is what he wanted, and we gave it to him.
I have never called in the same field the cattle are in, and never will. In fact, I have never set up in the field next to the cattle pasture.
What really shakes up cattle and farmers around here is for 5 or 6 big coyotes taking down a big calf or attacking a cow that is calving. We killed 8 coyotes off the farm I mentioned earlier in this thread, and the farmer's loss of calves went down dramatically. That is what he wanted, and we gave it to him.
I have never called in the same field the cattle are in, and never will. In fact, I have never set up in the field next to the cattle pasture.
dakrobbins
New member
I've had does come in to fawn distress, but I've also had sheep that didn't care about it. Only time I've had anything to do with cattle was a couple weekends ago. A couple longhorns weren't supposed to be in the area they were in an came charging when vocals started. Legitimately thought I was gonna turn into a kabob that day.
coyotehunter20
New member
I had a doe come in to 5 yards from me using fawn distress this December out in Montana. She came from about 300 yards. She was bedded down before I started calling. I thought it was a coyote at first. As she was coming in I look up and behind her is a coyote on the run. The coyote came in and put its hackles up and the doe pinned her ears back. Shot the coyote at about 60 yards and the doe spooked about 40 yards away and then came back in and started pawing and sniffing the coyote. Coolest thing I have ever seen.
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DoubleCK
New member
Originally Posted By: DoubleCKTo make it plain.
Upsetting Livestock while calling, or with dogs causes stress. Stress costs on livestock costs $$$. Always a little, sometimes a lot.
Good way to become real unwelcome on private ground in a hurry. On public lands it is certainly inconsiderate, unethical and perhaps illegal.
I try to avoid it.
Okay, Sorry, I'll try to make it Plainer... But first please carefully re read my post quoted above.
I try to avoid causing stress on livestock. I would assess that I would be liable any damage that I might cause.
Not talking specifically about any sound.
Upsetting Livestock while calling, or with dogs causes stress. Stress costs on livestock costs $$$. Always a little, sometimes a lot.
Good way to become real unwelcome on private ground in a hurry. On public lands it is certainly inconsiderate, unethical and perhaps illegal.
I try to avoid it.
Okay, Sorry, I'll try to make it Plainer... But first please carefully re read my post quoted above.
I try to avoid causing stress on livestock. I would assess that I would be liable any damage that I might cause.
Not talking specifically about any sound.
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Dropadoglv
New member
Originally Posted By: DoubleCKOriginally Posted By: DoubleCKTo make it plain.
Upsetting Livestock while calling, or with dogs causes stress. Stress costs on livestock costs $$$. Always a little, sometimes a lot.
Good way to become real unwelcome on private ground in a hurry. On public lands it is certainly inconsiderate, unethical and perhaps illegal.
I try to avoid it.
Okay, Sorry, I'll try to make it Plainer... But first please carefully re read my post quoted above.
I try to avoid causing stress on livestock. I would assess that I would be liable any damage that I might cause.
Not talking specifically about any sound. I did READ it, I'm not trying to cause an argument. I understand that calling may cause stress to livestock. But honestly I've never heard of this?? And stress costing $$$..? But you may know something I don't ?? But, you stated, it could be "inconsiderate", "unethical" and possibly "illegal", on "PUBLIC LAND". That's the part of your statement that has my attention.
Upsetting Livestock while calling, or with dogs causes stress. Stress costs on livestock costs $$$. Always a little, sometimes a lot.
Good way to become real unwelcome on private ground in a hurry. On public lands it is certainly inconsiderate, unethical and perhaps illegal.
I try to avoid it.
Okay, Sorry, I'll try to make it Plainer... But first please carefully re read my post quoted above.
I try to avoid causing stress on livestock. I would assess that I would be liable any damage that I might cause.
Not talking specifically about any sound. I did READ it, I'm not trying to cause an argument. I understand that calling may cause stress to livestock. But honestly I've never heard of this?? And stress costing $$$..? But you may know something I don't ?? But, you stated, it could be "inconsiderate", "unethical" and possibly "illegal", on "PUBLIC LAND". That's the part of your statement that has my attention.
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CaliCoyoteCaller
New member
Well, as the OP, I guess I should share my experience. I DID use calf distress, and I was in cow pastures.......I had cows in adjoining pastures, and cows in the pasture I was calling in....long story short, no coyotes came in and no cows stampeded or freaked out. I had MANY cows perk their heads up, I had a handful walk closer to me to check out the "calf." I didnt have any cows run in, or run through a fence or anything else described by some in this thread. So my question is, how many have actually used calf distress and how many are just talking and making things up based on assumption or what they "think will happen," if one was to use calf distress. It was made to be a BIG, DANGEROUS, POSSIBLY UNETHICAL thing to use that sound, and well, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENED. Just my .02....Have a great day guys!
SlickerThanSnot
New member
Originally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCaller So my question is, how many have actually used calf distress and how many are just talking and making things up based on assumption or what they "think will happen," if one was to use calf distress. It was made to be a BIG, DANGEROUS, POSSIBLY UNETHICAL thing to use that sound, and well, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENED.
i was thinking it. but you said it.
just like the next poster that said coyote vocals bring cows running and watch out for the bull. i never seen cattle pay much attention to coyote howls, barks, etc.
what did we do before the internet.
i was thinking it. but you said it.
just like the next poster that said coyote vocals bring cows running and watch out for the bull. i never seen cattle pay much attention to coyote howls, barks, etc.
what did we do before the internet.
tripod3
New member
It is pretty obvious that experience shows in calling and especially using the calf distress sound among calving cattle.
There is so much more to it than going in a random pasture to call and if nothing happens then it's deemed folk lore.
What breed are the cattle?
Is it calving season there?
Are they heifers or mature cows?
Are they in a spring or fall calving program? We have both here.
Do you know the operator and have you actually talked with them about any of this?
This is the first year a rancher has specifically stated to me "Don't use any calf sounds". I am certain this statement came as a result of encountering disrespectful callers.
Ranchers need to plan all steps from calving to medication application to reduce stress and promote growth.
There is so much more to it than going in a random pasture to call and if nothing happens then it's deemed folk lore.
What breed are the cattle?
Is it calving season there?
Are they heifers or mature cows?
Are they in a spring or fall calving program? We have both here.
Do you know the operator and have you actually talked with them about any of this?
This is the first year a rancher has specifically stated to me "Don't use any calf sounds". I am certain this statement came as a result of encountering disrespectful callers.
Ranchers need to plan all steps from calving to medication application to reduce stress and promote growth.
I haven't used calf distress, nor will I. I doubt that anyone with first hand knowledge of cow/calf would. If you want to know how cows MAY react to calf distress, volunteer to help your rancher tag newborns one morning.
I call in cow pastures alot. Usually not in the immediate vicinity of cows. What it boils down to is this. If what your doing is causing more than just a casual interest from the cattle present, pick up your gear and move on. After all, the reason you are there is to boost the ranchers bottom line. Your enjoyment is secondary.
Private access is half what it was 20 years ago and is bound to get worse. I closed my ground 5 years ago to anyone but immediate family. I was having trouble with gates being left open, trash, and lack of common sense around livestock. I reopened it to hunting this year so as not to be hypoctritical. I certainly enjoy the look on peoples faces when they tell me their success stories. They have to jump through many more hoops now to gain access though. The moral of that story is to realize whose resources you are enjoying and what your options are when they are gone. Which is the likely result of you stirring up a persons cows with any call.
I call in cow pastures alot. Usually not in the immediate vicinity of cows. What it boils down to is this. If what your doing is causing more than just a casual interest from the cattle present, pick up your gear and move on. After all, the reason you are there is to boost the ranchers bottom line. Your enjoyment is secondary.
Private access is half what it was 20 years ago and is bound to get worse. I closed my ground 5 years ago to anyone but immediate family. I was having trouble with gates being left open, trash, and lack of common sense around livestock. I reopened it to hunting this year so as not to be hypoctritical. I certainly enjoy the look on peoples faces when they tell me their success stories. They have to jump through many more hoops now to gain access though. The moral of that story is to realize whose resources you are enjoying and what your options are when they are gone. Which is the likely result of you stirring up a persons cows with any call.
Dropadoglv
New member
Originally Posted By: tripod3It is pretty obvious that experience shows in calling and especially using the calf distress sound among calving cattle.
There is so much more to it than going in a random pasture to call and if nothing happens then it's deemed folk lore.
What breed are the cattle?
Is it calving season there?
Are they heifers or mature cows?
Are they in a spring or fall calving program? We have both here.
Do you know the operator and have you actually talked with them about any of this?
This is the first year a rancher has specifically stated to me "Don't use any calf sounds". I am certain this statement came as a result of encountering disrespectful callers.
Ranchers need to plan all steps from calving to medication application to reduce stress and promote growth.
Tripod...nicely said..this I understand. I am no rancher nor I claim to know everything about cattle. I do know that "stress" can cause problems in cattle, from the ranchers mouth: heifers mainly, can cause a disruption in milk production, cause tougher meat, because of the "adrenaline" being caused. BUT, I have many "livestock" ranches that I have access too. Not just cattle, but chicken, sheep, and even one ranch that raises ostrich. That being said: me personally have never used a "calf distress" sound, but just my opinion, if the rancher happens to give you permission to hunt his/her land for the purpose of ridding any predators on their land. I believe that the predators in the area would cause more "stress" amongst "cattle" than a calf distress call! Correct me if I am wrong...
There is so much more to it than going in a random pasture to call and if nothing happens then it's deemed folk lore.
What breed are the cattle?
Is it calving season there?
Are they heifers or mature cows?
Are they in a spring or fall calving program? We have both here.
Do you know the operator and have you actually talked with them about any of this?
This is the first year a rancher has specifically stated to me "Don't use any calf sounds". I am certain this statement came as a result of encountering disrespectful callers.
Ranchers need to plan all steps from calving to medication application to reduce stress and promote growth.
Tripod...nicely said..this I understand. I am no rancher nor I claim to know everything about cattle. I do know that "stress" can cause problems in cattle, from the ranchers mouth: heifers mainly, can cause a disruption in milk production, cause tougher meat, because of the "adrenaline" being caused. BUT, I have many "livestock" ranches that I have access too. Not just cattle, but chicken, sheep, and even one ranch that raises ostrich. That being said: me personally have never used a "calf distress" sound, but just my opinion, if the rancher happens to give you permission to hunt his/her land for the purpose of ridding any predators on their land. I believe that the predators in the area would cause more "stress" amongst "cattle" than a calf distress call! Correct me if I am wrong...
tripod3
New member
Dropadoglv, calf in distress seems to cause a motherly instinct reaction. The protection reaction can be different by breed, age, time of year, location, and each individual cow.
The reaction can range from a head turn to a barn storming search.
Most other distress calls usually get much less if any reaction but more often curiosity.
Fawn distress will bring deer stomping and snorting from quite a distance in protecting their own much the same as cattle do.
Herds this time of year see an influx of eagles and congregation of coyotes that roam freely among the cows and calves day and night. They coexist until the coyote gets hungry.
Kills are generally young, small, weak or sick and are pretty quick. Unlike an electronic call that plays continuous like a calf hung up in a fence with it's butt being chewed.
Wolves and cougars bring a different unsettled air. Ranchers pick up on the change but can't always put a finger on whats going on til a strike.
The reaction can range from a head turn to a barn storming search.
Most other distress calls usually get much less if any reaction but more often curiosity.
Fawn distress will bring deer stomping and snorting from quite a distance in protecting their own much the same as cattle do.
Herds this time of year see an influx of eagles and congregation of coyotes that roam freely among the cows and calves day and night. They coexist until the coyote gets hungry.
Kills are generally young, small, weak or sick and are pretty quick. Unlike an electronic call that plays continuous like a calf hung up in a fence with it's butt being chewed.
Wolves and cougars bring a different unsettled air. Ranchers pick up on the change but can't always put a finger on whats going on til a strike.
Dropadoglv
New member
Thanks tripod for the clarification!
Jeepyjer
New member
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCaller So my question is, how many have actually used calf distress and how many are just talking and making things up based on assumption or what they "think will happen," if one was to use calf distress. It was made to be a BIG, DANGEROUS, POSSIBLY UNETHICAL thing to use that sound, and well, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENED.
i was thinking it. but you said it.
just like the next poster that said coyote vocals bring cows running and watch out for the bull. i never seen cattle pay much attention to coyote howls, barks, etc.
what did we do before the internet.
Just because it hasn't happened to you does NOT mean it does not happen to others.All I hunt is Ranches and farms I have been around cattle all my life.You think I just make stuff up?or repost something I have read well your wrong I only give advise on stuff that has happened to me and I know threw experience.I never said it bring them in running.
i was thinking it. but you said it.
just like the next poster that said coyote vocals bring cows running and watch out for the bull. i never seen cattle pay much attention to coyote howls, barks, etc.
what did we do before the internet.
Just because it hasn't happened to you does NOT mean it does not happen to others.All I hunt is Ranches and farms I have been around cattle all my life.You think I just make stuff up?or repost something I have read well your wrong I only give advise on stuff that has happened to me and I know threw experience.I never said it bring them in running.
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not trying to keep this topic alive but some may enjoy a few of the pics in this old post
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/for...591#Post2852591
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/for...591#Post2852591
DoubleCK
New member
Good clarification guys.
In addition to our role in ranching, we also ran a Carriage Service with teams of horses. For some time now it is apparent that fewer and fewer people know much if anything about livestock. I can tell you stories about the general public on the streets with their children that will make you shudder.
As previously stated I hope this thread may give reason for pause for folks sharing the private and public lands with the ranchers and farmers struggling to feed the world.
In addition to our role in ranching, we also ran a Carriage Service with teams of horses. For some time now it is apparent that fewer and fewer people know much if anything about livestock. I can tell you stories about the general public on the streets with their children that will make you shudder.
As previously stated I hope this thread may give reason for pause for folks sharing the private and public lands with the ranchers and farmers struggling to feed the world.
CaliCoyoteCaller
New member
I think some guys are waaaaaayyyy over thinking this whole "calf distress call" thing...Just my .02
DoubleCK
New member
Originally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCallerI think some guys are waaaaaayyyy over thinking this whole "calf distress call" thing...Just my .02
Good chance you are correct with all those "Happy Cows" you got out there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKXL7InZqxY&nohtml5=False
BTW: Predators do create expensive stress on livestock. So keep after 'em!
Good chance you are correct with all those "Happy Cows" you got out there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKXL7InZqxY&nohtml5=False
BTW: Predators do create expensive stress on livestock. So keep after 'em!