Caller Safety: Situational Awareness

T

Three 44s

New member
I debated posting this .... it was beaten up in the "Predator" a fair bit. "It" being the cougar attack on Jim Hamm in north California recently.

But I thought it deserves a different discusion. Not another fist fest over tree huggers but a reasoned discussion on CALLER SAFETY.

As callers of predators we face a unique danger ....

We dress up "all bushy" and crawl into the pucker brush and sound like something good to eat or make whoopy with ...... and sometimes an animal gets past our radar.

Now I don't blame a cat or bear or whatever for being torqued off but I like my hide just the way it is!

For those of you interested here is a link to CBS5 in San Fransisco ... they are doing yeomans duty on this recent attack!

This link goes right into that station's video archive. I suggest the long version first ..... it's called "Raw Video" Victim Of Norcal Mountain Lion Attack" dated Jan. 29, 2007 .... go to the lower right of the screen and page over to "page 6" to get to that date.

From that day forward there are multiple stories on that matter.

http://cbs5.com/video/?cid=129

Now these fine Americans /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif certainly were not predator calling or even hunting but once a cat is giving you a cat scan .... how it got there is immaterial.

Regards

Three 44s
 
I haven't watched, but there is one thing I am sure all of these people had in common; they were not aware that they were in danger and were totally oblivious to the fact that they could be stalked.

I do believe that we too are in danger, to think otherwise is ignorance, but, I believe that we are in less danger than these people since we are at least knowledgable on what we hunt, why we are there, etc.
 
Troponin,

You should watch ....

My opinion of them advanced markedy ... they are real standup folks for "meer" hikers ... not your average Kalifornia ducks by any means.

And I think we delude ourselves that since we are hunters and armed ..... we have the world by the tail. I know that's NOT what you said ... not arguing with you thoughts.

But, it would be all too easy to get a cat on top of a caller and that caller not able to bring a long gun to bear at zero distance.

Thanks

Regards

Three 44s
 
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Ok, I will watch in that case. Thought we were just talking about your average joe bird watcher.

One thing is for sure, it's certainly a better feeling having a mocing decoy out there with the remote caller in some cases then using a hand call and moving too much myself. Depends on my visibility and distance I am calling.
 
Your right about situational awareness. I've had coyotes run darn near over the top of me when calling. I've never called in a couger, but hopped over a fence deer hunting once and almost astraddle of one. I'm not sure who jumped further, well the cat jumped further, but I darn near wet myself. I was so shook up I never even got a shot at the cat.

Big toothy animals chew on folks in this country every once in a while. We've had several incidents here in Idaho where folks felt extremly threatened by our now growing wolf population and couger and bear interactions are not uncommen at all.

Be aware.
 
I like the part that they said there were other people in the area that heard the screaming and everyone left to go get help. I feel better knowing that Pa now allows weapons to be carried on to state game lands and the likes.
 
IDBob,

I am still trying to pick myself off the floor .......

Ride'm cougar!

Did you get your shorts bronzed for posterity on that one??

It's a good thing you BOTH were of the same mind ..... "Get The Hell Out Of Dodge"!

Troponin,

There are several vidoes. One of Nell Hamm where she says that when they got to a road .... a motorist refused to stop! Now you just know that a couple of "gray Panthers" are going to fake those wounds just to rob ya'!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

OK ... count to TEN and breath deeply .... it's Kalifornia!

Three 44s
 
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Quote:
But, it would be all too easy to get a cat on top of a caller and that caller not able to bring a long gun to bear at zero distance.


How right you are 3.
Here is what happened to me the other day. Bobcat in my face
It wasn't a cougar but I was NOT READY.
PC
 
Hello PC,

Looks like you had a "window seat" on that BOB!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

LOL!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Three 44s
 
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i have had lions come to the call 4 times in my life but found if you buy a tag you can't get them in. i think they have the G&F web page telling them who has a tag and who does not. i stopped buying the tag because at least without one i could see one. i bought tags 5 years in a row and tried to call them hard but no takers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
maybe now days with a lion in heat tape i could pull it off but i can't afford the mount so no need to shoot one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Yeah I really did form a different opinon of the guy after I saw the video. After my lion run in last year I did not all a stand for a month. i had been out 2-3 times a week before. Ad when I fianlly did make a stand I was way out in the open flats. They are scary animals. Mine got to 8 yeards despie all my experience in calling and the fact that I was stationary and looking for things coming to me. Had I not looked over my shoulder at the point in time I had, I would probably have been kitty food.
 
Like Elks, I get more wary all of the time that I call lions. Danger to me used to never enter my head, but the way they have often sneaked up close to me while calling without me seeing them, has me much more cautious.

Examining lion kills has me more spooked also. If they get the killing bite they seem to prefer for deer, (back of the neck) you are dead so quick there is no fight. That California man was fortunate that the cat grabbed his head. Interestingly to me, most of the cougar attacks where the victim survives are when the cat misses the back of the neck or maybe grabs the victim elsewhere on purpose, usually the head.

Last year for the first time ever I placed some poles and limby branches to make a kind of wall and roof to cover my back on a calling stand. The cat would have to fight through that stuff to get to me, and make some racket.

Jim Corbett, the man who hunted and killed so many man eating tigers and leopards, wrote of how useless a rifle is once the cat is close enough to make contact.
 
Jim Hamm said his backpack kept the cat from getting to his neck. He was following his wife, the cat hit from the rear from the cover of foliage along the trail.

This isn't the first time a back pack has saved somebodies neck.

*********************

I have very good friend who does Predation work for a Wildlife Dept. He hunted cougs almost exclusively at night for most of a year ... then he read Kate Ettings book, "Cougar Attacks".

His next night hunt was inside of a wire enclosure build from cyclone fencing. From advice from kind members on this forum, he also used a small dog for a sentry for his first time.

The dog did his part. He made indications of an approaching cat ......... even jumped in his lap and growled! Smart little dog.

My friend gave the incoming predator some time to get close enough for a shot.

It did .... sort of ......

The trouble was that the cat was plunk right in the middle of a wild rose briar patch and when my friend decided to light up it's whiskers .......... the protection cage and the brush pile thirty five yards in front of him BOTH light up. The cat still well hidden in there let out the classic scream!

My good friend had a long and dark walk back to his truck after some mighty lengthy soul searching!

The dog was a "loaner" ...... his wife's dog. The enclosure was as much for it as it was for my friend's well being 'cause this dog's owner is also a good shot.

(There ARE things around more dangerous than a riled cougar)

Like Rim Runner, we all like remoted E-callers around here as well.

There is no doubt that they help. But cats are as much or more about sight as they are about sound, especially when they are in "deal closing range". If you so much as wiggle your "nose hairs" at the wrong time .... you are busted or worse.

Another friend found this out the hard way. He has been an avid trapper and caller all his life. He bought a WT and set to work. After about four months of calling in his spare time, he called a coug to about 25 yards to one side of him.

He (camoed to the nines) and the cat are facing the call and yet when he barely turned his head ... their eyes met!

Busted!

Like Okaganogan wrote about a rifle being useless for a last ditch situation, I think in terms of a handgun for a back up.

A good shotgun is the ultimate IF you have the room but with a cat's stealth .... the shooter may well need a weapon short enough that the shooter and predator are likely to (mutually) suffer powder burns. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif


Three 44s
 
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I often get teased for not wanting to hunt at night alone. For me, there are jsut way too many variables that make me feel uneasy for a solo run. There is a place near me that has an unbelievable amount of lions and bears. I was going to head out a few nights ago and call it, but I chickened out. I am ALWAYS on the lookout for what may be coming behind me.....I'm a bit sketchy that way.
 
You will never get teased by me for thinking twice or three times and NOT hunting alone ... day or night.

I think a GOOD partner is a wise move ... for safety and productivity.

As bears and cats get more habituated ... they get more dangerous.

Three decades ago a cougar that came across a human had only one thing in mind ..... LEAVING! Black bears were the same way.

But between hound hunting bans and an over all decline in houndsmen and women even in states that still allow hound hunting of bears and cats .... they have MUCH less reason to fear from a human encounter.

It's about to get interesting.

Regards

Three 44s
 
As a predator hunter and a nuisance animal trapper I'm a one man department for the Yakama Nation Wildlife Department located within the state of Washington.As such one of my most serious duties is the removal of cougars within the populated areas of the reservation aprox. 40 plus miles where at one time when I had media coverage there was 29 sitings with in 10 days.Now we're not talking the intire reservation which is the largest in the state.All of my lion stands are 99% solo and at night with a W.T.E.caller both with and without nite vision[I've since purchased my own 4 th generation nite scopes,one on a 22.250 the other I use as scanner,10,000 dollars but my wife thinks I'm worth it, a 22.250 because as I said a populated area and with v.max ammo that fragment and shot placement I feel comfortable]Now for the situation awareness I've usually got the W.T.from 100 to 150 yds. away from me, my work truck camoed an usually up aginst thick undergrowth that I'm pretty sure a lion couldn't get thru or leap over even so I've had a lion come in on one side bust me at 25yds as I scanned him then circle my undergrowth before fading off.I had one big tom show up on a raise at 60yds while using lion talk for female in heat as I found him with my scanner he was looking right at me while slowly swiching to a rifle I got it up just in time to watch him fade off the the rise.Closest in counter was in the center of a harvested hay field with my dark colored work truck,no nightvision,but with a companion an a light force on my scope.The W.T. was a 150yds to the west an I was scanning north to south periodly with the light that had only been in the field twice, frist time out after having been set inconjunction with the scope it took a coyote at 200yds so I assumed it was good to go not knowing it had a loose hinge pin.[now its checked with every useage] anyway after about an hour with no activity I desided to sweeten things up with a handheld rabbit squaller then I and my companion settled back in our lawn chairs on the off side of the truck to the W.T. ecaller.Now the only I can figure is some 6th sense made me hit the lightforce on the rifle laying in my lap to the north east where it lit up a large lion sitting on it's haunches looking at us at about 35yds,well things got kind of hectic at that point as I threw up the rifle to find no cat no light back down there was cat back up nothing at this point my companion started sceaming blow his [beeep]--ing eyes out which of course I couldn't do, well luckly after 5 or 10 seconds of this the cat said to heck with these nuts and left much to our relief.Needless to say I don't use a hand held at night especially by myself and I thourghly check my equiptment.In 2 years at this I've only disposed 7 lions and one large bobcat that came in after akid goat I was using for bait,yes goat survived with out harm.Oh yes 40% of that time was with out nightvision,not good.
 
Thanks so far for all the posts and stories. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

And special thanks to Yakamabreed! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

LOL!! I was not gaurding his back that fateful night ..... I am afraid Reservation or not, I would have "broken radio silence" ..... LOL!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

A gal that works for our ranch was with him ..... she had an axe to grind .... the cats were circling her house prior to the Tribe hunting them and trying to get her dogs or? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Besides helping Yakamabreed some nights, she has extensive sound engineering training and her other way of "getting even" is working with her sound equipment. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

Three 44s
 
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Hello,

I'm a newcomer to this forum, but where I live there are a lot of cats. There have not been any attacks recently, that I am aware of anyway. Nonetheless, hiking behind my house, I noticed bones or carcasses of a deer or small elk every couple of hundred yards or so. Looking up above me, there were enough bluffs and hidie-holes for cats to use to make me feel like a pork chop. The place was a an ambush site that was used often.

Then later on in the year, a mtn lion was shot on a neighbor's porch that was real sick and just wouldn't leave the people's yard not but a couple of miles from my house. All it takes is a cat that is a little desparate that decides to play chainsaw on ya' and your entire outlook on life is altered, if you survive.

I don't care what you have for a weapon, if they decide to come down on you, it can be over so fast, that you won't have time to respond. I haven't called in a mountain lion close enough to see yet, but I did have the tell tale signs of practically being run over by a herd of deer, followed by a nice bull elk. Bulls just don't take off running from just anything. We were just calling coyotes at the time.

It is just survival. It pays to be aware of anything that could go wrong. That's how the animals survive, or not... we aren't much different.
 
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