Calling coyotes and bobcats in mountain lion country?

what kind of critter was that gut pile? That's textbook lion... cover the kill with whatever is handy in the area. leaves, pine needles, grass, dirt... They use rocks and gravel in Patagonia (reading a book on those southern cats currently).

I have bear, bobcat, coyote, and mountain lion on the same trail cameras sometimes within the same few days of each other. My observation is that the lions I get (when I get them on what I assume are consecutive passes through the area) roll through about every 6 weeks, and bobcats every 4 weeks or so... very unscientific, but if I get one of either, it'll be a few weeks before I get one again... sometimes months, but never more frequently than 6 weeks for puma, 4 for bobcats. Is it the same cat? who knows....

This is the lion kill I found on my property and called a lion to. This was the day after the kill... maybe 12 hours old, so only one eating session on it when I found it. I wish I was further away for the pic, you could see how it basically raked all the leaves and pine needles in about an 8 foot circle into the center and over the kill... almost bare dirt all around, with the pile up onto the kill. Hard to see tracks even knowing with certainty that it was a cat, it raked the ground pretty thoroughly:

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Quote:what kind of critter was that gut pile?

Most likely a nilgai, but could have been any number of exotics on this ranch. All that was left was the gut pile (which seems strange to me as with your deer kill, most of the critters eat the insides first???

Regards,
hm
 
Originally Posted By: hm1996Bears are almost unheard of down here, Mark. I remember one or two in the past 50 years that came up from Mexico during extreme droughts. One, IIRC, was killed not far from this ranch but that's been over 25 years ago.

The gut pile may have been left by a hunter, but there were no boot or truck tracks in the surrounding area, so that's not too likely IMO. We usually are able to drive close enough to snake game out of the brush with a vehicle which leaves lots of sign.
Also something covered the remains w/grass.

Regards,
hm

Interesting since seeing bears even in town is not uncommon here. Now cougars are the same often killing livestock and pets. The newest addition, wolves have been in town and I called my first wolf in, pretty exciting. That wolf killed a few sheep and a couple sheep dogs at a friends close by.
 
Quote:Interesting since seeing bears even in town is not uncommon here. Now cougars are the same often killing livestock and pets. The newest addition, wolves have been in town and I called my first wolf in, pretty exciting. That wolf killed a few sheep and a couple sheep dogs at a friends close by.

Man, you got all the good stuff up there, Mark; all we got is smelly javelina down here. ETA: & they're covered w/fleas.
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Regards,
Clarence
 
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Originally Posted By: photohunterThis is a good read as a relatively ignorant newbie with mountain lions in the back yard. I'm glad I'm not the only one that has freaked myself out!
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I would have to really travel to get somewhere that wasn't lion country, so it's a potential (and a hope) all the time... I'm carrying a camera and a .45 that I hope to never have to use...

All the time I've spent trying to get close to a lion, and all the reading I've done on them... I'm pretty convinced they aren't just going to sneak up on you and eat your face or anything... maybe if you're really confusing looking and using a mouth call so you're the source of the noise. But if they make you out as a human, they aren't going to advance. Guys that collar/track/research them describe treeing them by yelling and clapping their hands... they want nothing to do with you. We don't "register" as a prey species when they spot us, so their instinct is to not let us see them, not to get aggressive.

That being said, the creeping up behind me thing has really put some limits on where I'm willing to set up and call... maybe I'll get more comfortable over time? Dunno.....

Those pics I posted (the only lion I've seen in the wild with my own eyes) were shot maybe 150 feet from my house. I'm in a canyon/creek bed right at the tree line. I will never now how many I've been close to.


I'll edit to add: when I've called in coyotes at my place, they've come in at a sprint... but they seem to be hanging out in the creek bed out away from the woods and come in from that direction, not from out of the woods where you'd figure lions and bobcats would be hanging out.


Mountain lions can be anywhere and everywhere. Contrary to their name, we see "mountain" lions in the flats of the desert southwest. Anywhere that you have large prey species you can have lions. You find deer, sheep, cattle, you're going to be able to find big cats. There have been a lot of recent sightings of "mountain" lions in places like Nebraska.

I have personally called in two while I was calling for foxes and bobcats. In those days we weren't allowed to take them with shotguns, which wasn't an issue since neither one was within shotgun range. It was fascinating to watch them watch the call with me.

I don't think anyone will know how many times they have been close to these ghosts and never knew.
 
Originally Posted By: SnowmanMo

Mountain lions can be anywhere and everywhere. Contrary to their name, we see "mountain" lions in the flats of the desert southwest. Anywhere that you have large prey species you can have lions. You find deer, sheep, cattle, you're going to be able to find big cats. There have been a lot of recent sightings of "mountain" lions in places like Nebraska.

I have personally called in two while I was calling for foxes and bobcats. In those days we weren't allowed to take them with shotguns, which wasn't an issue since neither one was within shotgun range. It was fascinating to watch them watch the call with me.

I don't think anyone will know how many times they have been close to these ghosts and never knew.

Yup. The book I'm reading (Path of the Puma by Jim Williams...great read) talks about how their extreme territoriality is helping spread the species back into places they used to be but were driven out of around the turn of the century... He's not anti-hunting at all, but he basically says that the protections that have been put on them in places like California doesn't necessarily make them more populated in California, it drives the edges of their total habitat further into new territory (or old territory)... they will maintain their 40 square miles of territory (he says approximately) and drive out other cats that are in their territory... the result is not more cats in Cali, it's new cats in Nebraska... they are expanding back east into places where they haven't been for a long time. The only large predator with solidly increasing numbers. They're just awesome critters.
 
I live and hunt in area 100 and it holds arguably the highest density of both lions and black bears (with about 50 Grizz for extra fun) in the state. My PURELY ANECDOTAL OBSERVATIONS are that coyotes come running in here as fast as they do everywhere else in the country with no obvious hesitation due to larger predators. It seemed like the wolves pounded the coyotes pretty hard here 5-10yrs ago but they have bounced back some since we have been taking more wolves. I am starting to see more coyote and less wolf tracks in my normal hunting areas.
 
Last winter early Jan I got permission to hunt a ranchers land and while talking to her she showed me where her cattle dog got tore up by a cougar. Next morning my daughter and I go out to hunt the "canyon" as the rancher called it. We set up backed up to a rock cliff with the sun coming up behind us. Sat the foxpro out about 40 yards in front it is an ideal place i think in my head. There are two ravines in the canyon meeting about 100 yards in front of us. We get settled in and start calling. Off and on for about 20 minutes and nothing. Now the sun is coming up behind us and all of a sudden I see a shadow on the ground in front of us and it looks like a cat. The rock ledge is about 10 feet above our heads I turn my head slowly to look up I cant see the cat but it is like 15 deg and I can barely see the breath mist being blown out. About now my heart is zooming a million scenarios playing in my head I think if the cat jumps down its going to land right on us. My daughters sees the shadow now and she has oh no look. We both have 204 Rugers in our hands and I am thinking what are we going to do I was about in full panic. I shut the call off but the mojo is whirling away and I cant turn it off. The cat is still there hasnt moved in about 10 minutes. I can still see its breath over the edge of the rock. I thought well maybe i can shoot it if I lean out then i think even on 4 power I wont see anything but hair this close. So I kind of turn to stand my coat brushes a rock and I mean in a millisecond the shadow is gone. I never actually saw the cougar or heard it leave but we walked around afterwords and climbed up see the tracks and where he was sitting and it was less than 10 ft above our heads where that cougar sat. I can say this I have hunted for 35+ years and that is the most shook up I have ever been. Now anytime I go call my 10mm is in my chest holster ready to go. I think it scared my daughter as well I hunted that ranch last week while she was here on winter break from college and she would not go with me and that is rare for her...
 
I too grew up in mountain lion country and hunted yotes from Alaska to PA and yotes and bobcats don't act any different in lion country. If anything I learned real quick one day that the one who needs to act different is the hunter when my hunting buddy and I were calling yotes out in eastern Oregon and I called a HUGE mountain lion into about 50 yds. On the flip side, coyotes in Alaska do act different, seems like you hear almost no howling because that is like a dinner bell for wolves.
 
Originally Posted By: derbyacresbob

2016-11-09 07.09.40 by Robert Morris, on Flickr



Please forgive my asking but was this footage from Kern County? Or Los Angeles County?

I'm figuring Kern since you're from Kern... but it looks soo similar to another area I pass by in LA County.
 
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Originally Posted By: SnowmanMo
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Turns out that my remote had triggered his call. But his play list and mine were different and I had accidentally triggered the mountain lion growl. We laugh to this day when we talk about how freaked out we were.


THAT... was CLASSIC!!! Buaaahahahaaa!!!
 
Originally Posted By: SnowmanMo
I don't think anyone will know how many times they have been close to these ghosts and never knew.

2016.. I got my dear early in the AM. It's super hot. So I actually bothered to gut him to cool the meet. Must have been 95+ F.

Get to car and dump the meat. Gotta go back in and fetch tent, etc.

Too hot, wait til sundown. Finally sundown, make pack very lite, let's go. Pack all bloodied up with deer blood from pack-out. Trail going up arrive at a waterfall feature, but that was all dried out since summer and drought. Have a semi-circle of trail to cover to get over there. /

Saw something, looked down, raised .30-30 to eye... started counting! 1...2, 3, 4...5...6...7! Eeek! Yipes! 7 Mountain Lions down at bottom of ravine where (dried up) water feature was, leaving behind large stone srufaces which probably felt cool for them to lay on.

Before crossing the semi-circle I see this...3 Adults and 4 Juveniles..I look at my rifle...think to myself I got 6 in here, and BearSpray I don't like this... I don't like this..my brains dong a million calculations per seconds. Either I'm predator or I'm prey with this blood inmy backpack, so bump this...I'm Prey!! Let's Go! Cross the semi-circle... while doing so I begin with sayin "YEAH!!..I SEE YAH!!!" to which I then follow it up with the absolute loweset Dog Growls I can throw from the depths of my throat. Lettin' 'em know if they wanna bring it... it's gettin' met with hellified resistence. So do the walk around that ravine. Get to top of the water fallarea...it's last last light...I look over... thought I say a coyote...but then I saw the MamaDow ears and realized it was a baby doe beside her. My brain went DING! DING! DING! that's why there are 7 MntLions down there..."See YA!... Woudn't Wanna BE YA!"... and I was out! taking off further up the trail. left half the stuff back at the tent. Only had hand flashlight..which was acting like it was going to go dim and die on me.!!! The sheer Horror that swept over me in that moment!!! Figured I'd just cut the swtih and turn it off to conserve whatever power it had within it. Would just use it to turn it uon and look into dark nook and crannies along te way back up the trail. THANKFULLY there was a HALF-MOON likt night we shown bright enought on the main trail line that I could see *pretty* goood where I was going.

Eventually get back to the tent.. never soo happy to get back to illumination! Followd by a cusory 360 pan all around me to make sure nothing following me up into there.

IT puts everything into perspective just how close you brush up again them affecting your lives when out there!

That smell...that smell they make when they pass close by your camp setup...it can only be described as "the funk"... youy know they marked on somethng heavily you stuck your head out of the tent for it...craned your neck 360 with headlamp on...and yet... you can't see one of these"actors" doing what they do...just passing
 
Originally Posted By: TheGDogOriginally Posted By: SnowmanMo
I don't think anyone will know how many times they have been close to these ghosts and never knew.

2016.. I got my dear early in the AM. It's super hot. So I actually bothered to gut him to cool the meet. Must have been 95+ F.

Get to car and dump the meat. Gotta go back in and fetch tent, etc.

Too hot, wait til sundown. Finally sundown, make pack very lite, let's go. Pack all bloodied up with deer blood from pack-out. Trail going up arrive at a waterfall feature, but that was all dried out since summer and drought. Have a semi-circle of trail to cover to get over there. /

Saw something, looked down, raised .30-30 to eye... started counting! 1...2, 3, 4...5...6...7! Eeek! Yipes! 7 Mountain Lions down at bottom of ravine where (dried up) water feature was, leaving behind large stone srufaces which probably felt cool for them to lay on.

Before crossing the semi-circle I see this...3 Adults and 4 Juveniles..I look at my rifle...think to myself I got 6 in here, and BearSpray I don't like this... I don't like this..my brains dong a million calculations per seconds. Either I'm predator or I'm prey with this blood inmy backpack, so bump this...I'm Prey!! Let's Go! Cross the semi-circle... while doing so I begin with sayin "YEAH!!..I SEE YAH!!!" to which I then follow it up with the absolute loweset Dog Growls I can throw from the depths of my throat. Lettin' 'em know if they wanna bring it... it's gettin' met with hellified resistence. So do the walk around that ravine. Get to top of the water fallarea...it's last last light...I look over... thought I say a coyote...but then I saw the MamaDow ears and realized it was a baby doe beside her. My brain went DING! DING! DING! that's why there are 7 MntLions down there..."See YA!... Woudn't Wanna BE YA!"... and I was out! taking off further up the trail. left half the stuff back at the tent. Only had hand flashlight..which was acting like it was going to go dim and die on me.!!! The sheer Horror that swept over me in that moment!!! Figured I'd just cut the swtih and turn it off to conserve whatever power it had within it. Would just use it to turn it uon and look into dark nook and crannies along te way back up the trail. THANKFULLY there was a HALF-MOON likt night we shown bright enought on the main trail line that I could see *pretty* goood where I was going.

Eventually get back to the tent.. never soo happy to get back to illumination! Followd by a cusory 360 pan all around me to make sure nothing following me up into there.

IT puts everything into perspective just how close you brush up again them affecting your lives when out there!

That smell...that smell they make when they pass close by your camp setup...it can only be described as "the funk"... youy know they marked on somethng heavily you stuck your head out of the tent for it...craned your neck 360 with headlamp on...and yet... you can't see one of these"actors" doing what they do...just passing

I can't count the number of times that I have camped in mountain lion/bear country and found their tracks around our campsites and tents/trailers.

I was calling a canyon one time and was scanning the hillside across from me when something caught my eye. I couldn't see what had caught my attention so I sat and I waited. I saw a flicker, what almost looked like a bird fluttering. but as I continued to look and it moved again I realized that what I thought was a bird was in fact the mountain lion's ear flicking. It was AMAZING to sit and watch it and how still it was. Had it not been for some bug hassling the lion, I may well have gone the entire stand without seeing it.

I wonder how many lions have watched me on stands and I wasn't aware? That might be a question I will ask when I get to those pearly gates...
 


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