Can Animals See in IR?? A true Synopsis is needed, scientific vs. reality...

Whelp, I did not think you were graduate trained in Veterinary/Human Opthalmology Clinical Research Sciences, so I was trying to present the facts in as simple a form as possible on an 8th grade reading level.

Like I said before, Happy New Year!

What was invisible last year will continue to be invisible this year too, but we should all continue to keep an eye out for alien UFOs that see IR while out night hunting.
 
Skypup,

I have previously read on another forum where a member used an IR pass filter over the IR torch lens and it did not change his perception of the red glow.

I do not have the specs on the filter, but it was reported to be an 850nm pass filter. For reference, the chart on this site states that an 850nm pass filter will allow 0.0% of light less than 780nm. https://maxmax.com/aXNiteFilters.htm

He placed the filter over the red led torch on "high power" and found the filter blocked 100% of the red light, even when his eyes were adjusted for darkness.

He then placed the filter over the IR torch (using the common Osram 4715as 850nm LED) and found that his perception of the red glow from the emitter was unchanged from before the filter was installed.

Further, this study from 1947 was cited tending to support that there is some IR sensitivity in the eye, although really weak: https://www.osapublishing.org/josa/abstract.cfm?uri=josa-37-7-546

Based on this, I concluded that I cannot see IR wavelengths cast onto anything. However, when I look at an IR emitter, my eye detects the intense IR source and sends some signal to my brain that I perceive as red. Presumably it is perceived as red because my brain really doesn't know what it is so it "creates" a red image since that is the closest thing to what it "knows" I can see.

Is what I read hogwash? Should I be able to place a high quality long pass IR filter over my IR torch and eliminate my perception of red glow?
 
Interesting that you would refer to that.

Total hogwash, a $15 FleaBay IR filter for a commerical camera is NOT a precise scientific instrumental spectroscopic IR filter with a precise IR cutoff.

And the fact that you could see anything from that FleaBay IR cutoff IR LED Illuminator means that you are seeing Visible light since IR electromagnetic heat radiation is totally and completely invisible, ie no eye converts IR heat radiation into visible red light.

In addition, a 850nm or 940nm IR monochromatic laser would be invisible even with that crappy IR cutoff filter.You don’t get scientific results with cheap stuff, nice try but no cigar!

The Osram iR LED emits a broad spectrum of visible light and invisible electromagnetic radiation from 650nm visible spectrumto over 1000nm invisible spectrum, which is the reason you can see a red glow.

The 1947 study quoted is also BS, as is the two 500nm photons hitting the same photoreceptor cell to produce a 1,000nm wavelength response, that old ridiculous study was for observing retinal cells in a Petri dish using IR to pick up heat transfer in the cells for diagnostic disease purposes. Good for a laugh, but not anything else.

If you ever see anything at all under any circumstance, it is visible light, the rest of the entire electromagnetic wavelength spectrum is completely invisible and will always be that way., even if someone sees an alien or UFO day or night.
 
Contrary to popular belief here, searching Google does not produce much if any scientific results no matter how many times you try.

Clinical Biomedical Research information is sequestered in pay for view subscription databases.

If you want to get any of the real information on this subject, try going to a Sate University Research library and see if they will allow you to use their biomedical databases for which they pay hundreds of thousands of $$$ per year for a subscription.

As usual, cheap FleaBay IR filters and Google searches will continue to bring you cheap unreliable information.
 
Thanks, but now you're going to cost me money.

I've got one guy demonstrating his IR filter blocked all visible light from a 620nm red Cree LED, but did not reduce visible signature of the Osram IR LED (which does emit a small amount of 700-750nm "light"). I've got another guy throwing down the official BS flag (those are fun to keep handy). And I'm here just wanting to use my IR torch without me being able to see the source...because I guess it matters in mind.

Humans can see up to 700 - 750nm, right? Do you have a source for high quality IR filters? I want to try one if they're not extra spendy.
 
Try getting a better reflection cone for your IR LED torch to reduce the projection of the visible red glow, the less advanced IR torches have reflectors that spread the red glow out over wide angles, the more advanced IR LED torches have a small tight angle to view the visible glow.

What model of IR LED Illuminator is it that you are using and referring to?

Scientific IR spectrophotometer filters in various wavelengths are available for $2-3,000 and up depending on your specific research requirements. Or you could try going to your nearest state university medical center and talk to the clinical visual sciences research staff about your project and see if they will allow you to utilize their clinical and research equipment, or a university veterinary school’s Department of Veterinary Opthalmology.

Be sure to keep us posted here on your progress as your research progresses once you gain access to the required instrumentation.
 
Thanks. 2 to 3k is more than I want to put into it, but I do have a few universities around. I'll have to check with them.

I'm using a T20 torch so it doesn't have a reflector.
 
The veterinary school I went to has clinical liaisons with the federal Fish and Wildlife Service, Sate Fish and Game, and numerous zoological parks where our Veterinary Opthalmology staff could examine numerous species of wildlife for eye problems and diseases as well as research projects.

The medical school I went to also has similar equipment but the clinical and research staff is more oriented towards human eye diseases and their treatment.

A similar veterinary school in your state would be a good bet for the type of instrumentation needed for measuring your T20 IR LED torch spectral output.
 
SkyPup,
Thanks for the information. I read the entire thread. I do have a question. Regarding an IR laser vs IR light. I have an older Luna Elir 3 90MW class 3 IR laser

Power: 90mW •

• Field of Illumination: 0.1 ~ 5 degrees •

• Max. Range of View: 100m (326ft) •

• Power: 1x3V Lithium CR123 type •

• Operating Time: 6 hours •

• Dimensions: 122mm x24mm x31mm (4.5”x0.9”x1.2”) •

• Weight: 75g (2.6oz) •
and I also have Illuminators from Pulsar and Flir/OTS.
Should I get no light or glow from the laser as I would from the IR lights? Does that sound right? should I have better success with the focusing IR laser as opposed to the IR focusing lights?(in terms of Emitting a red glow) With the class 3 laser, I am not going to try and look at the beam as it can be very damaging to the eye.

Thanks for the help and sorry if this isn't pertaining to the thread.
Jerod
 
If your IR laser is not filtered or some other modification to it, you will not be able to see or otherwise visualize anything, nor would any other mammal on Earth.

However, I would seriously suggest NOT to be looking at any 90mW Class III IR laser in anyway, shape or form if you value your eyesight and ability to see visible light. That is a dangerous laser and even its reflections are hazardous.

After thinking over the many responses here in this thread regarding IR Illuminators, IR lasers,and such, it is easy for me to see why the FDA regulates these instruments so highly from civilian use as the lack of knowledge of their effects on the human eye leaves much to be desired.
 
Thats exactly what I was referring to. That is also why I asked because it is a Class 3 Laser.
It only gets used in hunting situations( woods and fields)
Thanks for the input. Much appreciated
 
We were able to purchase the original Luna ELIR 90mw laser before the FDA shut down their sales. I believe Luna now offers this model it in 5mw unit which I believe is the maximum allowed by the FDA. The original 90mw IR laser from Luna was very powerful, and could illuminate better than most LED stuff on the market today, especially when you focused the beam down to a smaller spot. However, the IR glow was as bad or worse than the more powerful LED driven models today. We tested this out at several hundred yards away (from the laser IR source) since these are not eye-safe lasers at close range. About the only advantage I can see to the laser models is pretty much eliminating the IR spill affect since they can collimate the beam very sharply. The 5mw restriction on the ones we've tried out however, really handicapped their ability to illuminate when flooded out to a useable spot. If anyone comes across a legal laser IR that they think is really good let us know. Kevin
 
Luna’s IR 850nm laser was not a quality IR laser design if anyone saw anything from it no matter how powerful it was.
 
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