Chronical of my SH testing

Originally Posted By: G Anderson

Yes 204AR, I was aware of your conditions when you shot it and wasn't necessarily directing this at your testing. My main intention was to reiterate the "stacking of tolerances" concept that can lead to those misses when it looks like the crosshairs were where they should be. And then add in any POI shifting that may be occurring...which now seems to be something of an expected norm from the units due to NUC'ing and other conditions. It appears that some units may be experiencing higher than normal shifts and others are minimal. I tried an R35 Hogster on one rifle and due to the adjustment limitations of the R35 being .94" per click, it was always .5 to .75 off of center. Then figure in every other variable and that is where I was coming from. Most day rifle scopes are 1/8 to 1/4" adjustments...the Pulsar units do have this ability but the Bering units do not...and I am not putting one over the other, just stating what is out there. The main objective is that with all the variables in thermal units, you are going to have some unexplained misses(we even miss with day scopes)...or at least I do.

Regards,
Gene

I understand now I think. I should have noted that I didn't make an attempt to perfectly zero it out, just looking for group relation to the aiming point. This adjusts in .64" increments, so one right and maybe 2 up would get me right where I want to be.
 
I had an hour to kill before work so I set up my target in these nasty conditions and it's a no go. It's light snow and fairly breezy and cold as he double hockey sticks. The bloom was the whole top half of the target lol so I'll wait it out.
 
Exactly right DU about the cant and that is another reason I don't like having to add rails to run these on bolt guns. It adds height and another important factor of cheekweld. Improper cheekweld makes it much harder to know if you are canting.


So far my Super Hogster has not shifted or very minimal, I have no complaints. My Super Yoter did shift vertical some on one profile but the other profile was really close so I can't really complain just yet, I keep killing coyotes!

204 thanks for this thread and your time as this should be a sticky for guys trying to make sense of thermal shift and zero issues for all brands.
 
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I've payed attention to the inclinometer in the Yoter. I've shot with it straight up and a bar or two right like I have tendency to hold. From what I can see it makes very little difference. Like still inch or tighter groups. I've also experiment with slop between uppers and lowers. When the hammer strikes it will shift the upper up to .75 on target at 100. I find all these variables to not stack up enough to create issues that produce groups over one inch at 100 yards.

I also notice if you push on the rear of the yoter it doesn't take much force to produce mount flex.
 
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Originally Posted By: KirschOriginally Posted By: varminter .223Fwiw Borris told me adjustments at higher than base mag are acceptable and should work. When I tested the prototype SY, the 1x, 2x, etc adjustments worked for me. Our weather has changed with below zero temps and feet of snow so testing to the point of verifying small changes such as .14” would be difficult. At 2x, each value should be at .27” which is within . 02” from most glass scopes and should be small enough for most.

I can’t explain why some people are struggling using the smaller adjustments. It could be shooters, guns, ammo, or it could be the scope. Me suggesting using 1x adjustments did not come from Bering. It was something I mentioned to a few users and it seemed to help some. The scope allows for smaller adjustments and people can use them.

I try to help members of the PM community as best I can. Things I write are not necessarily official comments by Bering or even Night Goggles unless I write that. Many of my comments and suggestions are me simply trying to help out PM members from some of my own personal experiences.

Adding to what Gene wrote, there are lots of factors to consider. One of them is a lot of night hunters shoot standing, I totally understand the benefits of doing this, but I sit. One of the reasons is because I know my shooting accuracy is far better sitting than standing. I don’t write this to get into a debate about standing versus sitting for coyote hunting.

Another consideration is I don’t believe in this thread we have discussed the topic of thermals being further off the bore than a traditional glass scope. Due to this, thermals should be zeroed at different distances from glass scopes if people want the same ballistic pattern as with a glass scope.

People often misjudge distance at night and the list goes on. None of what I’m writing is part of the shifting POI but starts into what is being discussed of why people miss more with thermals.

Even after all of those reasons and there are more, there’s proof on this site and all over the Internet, a person can kill coyotes consistently with thermal. If you couldn’t, it wouldn’t be nearly as popular as it is especially considering the cost. Know the pros and cons, become comfortable with the differences compared to other coyote hunting, and kill coyotes.


Kirsch, I do know that in the users manual for the R35, Bering is very specific about zeroing at 1x...so much so, they mention it more than once. This is for a fact in the manual, so Bering does in fact make this a point. This would indicate to me that they must have a valid reason for specifying this. I have only read the R35 manual so have no idea of what the SH or SY manual states, so these instructions from Bering on the R35 may not apply to the other units.

Gene
 
Originally Posted By: G AndersonKirsch, I do know that in the users manual for the R35, Bering is very specific about zeroing at 1x...so much so, they mention it more than once. This is for a fact in the manual, so Bering does in fact make this a point. This would indicate to me that they must have a valid reason for specifying this. I have only read the R35 manual so have no idea of what the SH or SY manual states, so these instructions from Bering on the R35 may not apply to the other units.
Gene Gene you are 100% correct. For the R25 and R35, and early SH models a person could go into the Zero menu at 2x, 3x, and 4x, and it would actually show smaller increments. Then when a person left the screen, it would change it back to the nearest 1x position. It led to lots of phone calls and Bering made a change that whenever a person went into the zero menu, the scopes automatically switched to 1x. I don't own current versions of all these scopes to be able to say 100% this is how they operate currently.

On the Super Yoter, one of the goals was to allow smaller zero incremental changes and allow 2x, 3x, and 4x adjustments. In my testing of early prototypes, it worked for me. When people on this forum tell me it isn't working for them, I listen to their comments.
 
Day three, got home 1/2 hour ago, light breeze from 9 or 10 oclock, maybe 5mph. -7 degrees F. Decided wth, and proceeded. breeze should move the shots about a 1/2" I figured. Rifle brought out of the warm house right before shooting. Forgot to nuc before.

bydRc1nl.jpg


I'm not sure which shot got the screw but I figured the last one as the target looked the same for all three shots. Now it looks all messed up lol, but the shots were true to where they should be, although not a great group. 1 shot with the first group on left, one hit the screw, one just to the right. Vertical is pretty much perfect. I'll call it another win.

Tomorrow evening I'll leave the rifle out in the cold for a 1/2 hour or more to let it acclimate with the scope on.
 
105 give or take. Target is getting pretty cluttered up. As I thought about it I started to wonder if it was the last shot that hit the screw or not. I remember one of the first shots doing something strange down range.
 
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No target today. Not for lack of trying, but the cold, wind and snow I couldn't keep the screw head hot lol and it wouldn't have been anything approaching precise.
 
Here's the last target, conditions today were very similar to the first outing. Almost no wind. Notice this group is just a little higher than the first group.

It wasn't quite dark out, sun had set and I wanted to go hunting tonight so I rushed it a little. The bloom was a bit larger than the previous two tests, probably due to the warmer air temp and lack of breeze cooling the screw head off. So still searching for the perfect target. I do have some ideas.

9F7rQtLl.jpg


I'm calling it plenty good enough for now until I see reasons to worry about it. Although the target looks like a mess, if the conditions had been the same for all shoots, they would be on top of each other.

I will add that this is not the load I'm hunting with, I did check zero with that load on another target and it's very very close, shoots slightly to the right of this load, so if you're wondering why I didn't zero, well, I did/am, just not with this load.

The coyotes tonight didn't like it at all, videos to come.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223204 refresh my memory, has you scope always tracked properly while sighting in?

Pretty much, although I did have some weird stuff going on with some l to r moving while I'm adjusting vertically. But I noticed this at 200 where any puff of wind can make it move.
 
I was bored, recovering from a cold, super warm out with very light l to r wind and a full moon. Nothing on tv, so I ran another test group.

I can't keep from hitting the screw lol. I'm pretty sure it was the first round as I noticed a slight change in the image, and it bent the screw as you see, which changed my poa to the right. What a mess.

But, I don't think the scope is wandering at all. I haven't been out in over a week but had the one hunt in between target sessions. I'm pleased.

1HVg2V7l.jpg
 
Good to hear. My replacement is supposed to be here Friday.
My buddies is having vertcal issue too so we will see how mine does before we bother with sending his in.
 
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