coyote calibers - no runners - little recoil

Originally Posted By: ackleymanamazing how many people pass over a 270 for a varmint rifle. The 90g Sierra loaded with IMR 3031 or AA2700 is super accurate to say the least at 3500 fps. I have shot several bob cats in half with this load.

Two issues with this post. One, why cut a $200-400 bobcat in half? And ,2, coyotes a d bobcats are predators, not varmints.
 
Originally Posted By: pahntr760Originally Posted By: ackleymanamazing how many people pass over a 270 for a varmint rifle. The 90g Sierra loaded with IMR 3031 or AA2700 is super accurate to say the least at 3500 fps. I have shot several bob cats in half with this load.

Two issues with this post. One, why cut a $200-400 bobcat in half? And ,2, coyotes a d bobcats are predators, not varmints.

Exactly...and I was thinking the same thing . Real genius to brag about blowing away cash.
 
Who needs quite when you can see them at night?? Should fit your needs pretty good I think.

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.223 and "Get your can on!"
 
Originally Posted By: ackleymanamazing how many people pass over a 270 for a varmint rifle. The 90g Sierra loaded with IMR 3031 or AA2700 is super accurate to say the least at 3500 fps. I have shot several bob cats in half with this load.

What you said.

Many years ago I lived full time in a summer resort area.
City Families would rent a cottage for the 10 weeks of the summer, and they would buy their kids a puppy for the summer.
Come September, they would pack up and head back to the "Big City"... sans puppy, who was not so cute any more. They would just abandoned it.

By October, the dogs would have packed up, and were a threat to the locals as they had no fear of people. The threat was so bad that the local stores would post sightings of the packs, and the guys would hunt the packs.

I used a 270 in a 20" Mannlicher full stock . The load was the 90 gr Sierra hollow point, and My God, was it brutal - it would easily cut a 25 pound feral dog in half and leave pieces parts all over the place.


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I've been watching this thread for a few days, and it's sure taken an interesting turn...

When a shooter asks for a DRT round, I generally consider that he means he's wanting to recover the dogs, which in my mind, means he's a fur hunter, because why else would you be so concerned with easy recovery? Maybe I'm wrong in that assumption?

Personally, I can't find anything better than a .223rem for knocking coyotes in the dirt, especially at mid-range (0-500yrds +/-). Between 500-1000yrds, the right bullet selection between a .243WSSM and a 6.5-284 is critical (could throw many other rounds in that list as well, these are the two I use). BUT, these two rounds (or others in their class) are pretty dang nasty at moderate ranges, and you'll end up ruining good hides.

Now, if I want to blow a coyote in half, he'll sure be DRT, but I really won't care, because he won't be worth recovering.

So again, I'm confused....

To answer the questions at hand. Personally, if you can discern a significant difference in volume between a .223rem and a .204ruger, or even a .243win at half a mile, I'd buy you a drink. Sure, I'd say the .223rem is likely the quietest of the three, but is it significantly quiet enough that a .243 would bug the neighbors and a .223rem wouldn't? No, not at least in my experience.

Shot placement is key for any round. I've taken coyotes with my .30-06 and 150grn Winchester Ballistic Silvertips that I placed poorly and the dogs ran off, never to be recovered. I've also dropped dogs dead in their tracks with a Marlin 60 .22lr. Sure, a more powerful, more violently expanding round might buy you an extra few inches in poor shot placement to produce a DRT, but it's not a guarantee. Or maybe you're thinking that a more powerful round can cripple an animal so it won't escape, even poorly shot, but it's not humane, not good for hide hunting, and frankly, it's just plain nasty. I too have seen coyotes run with their guts dragging behind them from a poor shot, and I've seen a few coyotes dragging themselves away with paralyzed backlegs... Nothing that I'd want to be planning on.

The upper torso (chest cavity, everything forward of the diaphragm) is a pretty dang big target. Sure, sometimes a dog is running and you know you can't guarantee a "vital hit", but in my experience, those shots are the exception, not the rule.

The 6.8SPC is actually a very effective moderate range (0-500yrd) coyote rifle. The moderate velocities keep it from doing extensive pelt damage (more than a .223, but significantly less than a .243 in my experience). It basically bridges the gap between the 22cals and the .243 in energy, and being south of 3000fps helps keep hide damage down.

My night hunting rifles a .223rem and a 6.8SPCII AR, my short range/urban night hunting rifle is a rimfire (.22lr, .22WMR, or .17HMR). Frankly, if I'm a half mile or more from a house, I don't even bother worrying about volume.

When you're talking about fox, or $200-400 bobcats, I cringe even thinking about the .223rem sometimes, and would favor a .17Rem, .22hornet, or a rimfire, unless we're talking about long enough ranges to take some zip off of the .223 (300-500yrds). I am dying to get my hands on a .17rem for bobcats...
 
Originally Posted By: VarminterrorWhen you're talking about fox, or $200-400 bobcats, I cringe even thinking about the .223rem sometimes, and would favor a .17Rem, .22hornet, or a rimfire, unless we're talking about long enough ranges to take some zip off of the .223 (300-500yrds). I am dying to get my hands on a .17rem for bobcats...

What you are saying is you would favor a 17 Rem for bobcats...but have never used one? Um, okay.

500 yards?...500-1000 yards? Um, okay.

Back to what the OP asked, wanting a caliber that doesn't recoil and produces no runners. The only cartridge I know that fits that bill is the one sitting your safe that never gets used.
 
Placement is key. If your getting runners work on shot placement. If you hit them in the broiler, they are going down I dont care what you use. I use a .223/5.56, 22-250 and a .243 and the only time I have trouble is if I miss my shot.....
 
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Originally Posted By: tawnoperOriginally Posted By: VarminterrorWhen you're talking about fox, or $200-400 bobcats, I cringe even thinking about the .223rem sometimes, and would favor a .17Rem, .22hornet, or a rimfire, unless we're talking about long enough ranges to take some zip off of the .223 (300-500yrds). I am dying to get my hands on a .17rem for bobcats...

What you are saying is you would favor a 17 Rem for bobcats...but have never used one? Um, okay.

You are wrong to assume that because I don't yet own one of my own that I have not used one.
 
"When a shooter asks for a DRT round, I generally consider that he means he's wanting to recover the dogs, which in my mind, means he's a fur hunter, because why else would you be so concerned with easy recovery? Maybe I'm wrong in that assumption?"

I'm sure others feel the same as me.....
Doesn't matter if I'm saving fur or not,when I pull the trigger I want a dead critter at the other end !
 
Our yearly sale on pelts were sizable at times in thelate 70's and early 80's, I know that cat pelts were worth. Low dessert cats don't bring much, and when you consider how many fawns they take each year, best to kill everyone that you can get your sights on if they are in season.

Most predators are a menace to big game herds, and local pets...they are varmints to me. It is my goal to kill'em and let the buzzards eat'm! I may hang them up in a tree and shoot them again after they are dead to do some bullet testing in them so as to determine which bullet may kill more more humanely.

I have skinned, washed, stretched, and combed more hides than most. The next thing that I skin is going to be a black coyote. It takes a lot of time away from the family
to be a dedicated hide hunter, I almost lost my wife over time away from home hunting, then skinning, washing, stretching, combing out what we killed. It does sound nobile to save the hides and not to waste them, but I have paid the price to try and make a business out of a hobby. To each is own.
 
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Originally Posted By: ackleymanOur yearly sale on pelts were sizable at times in thelate 70's and early 80's, I know that cat pelts were worth. Low dessert cats don't bring much, and when you consider how many fawns they take each year, best to kill everyone that you can get your sights on if they are in season.

Most predators are a menace to big game herds, and local pets...they are varmints to me. It is my goal to kill'em and let the buzzards eat'm! I may hang them up in a tree and shoot them again after they are dead to do some bullet testing in them so as to determine which bullet may kill more more humanely.

I have skinned, washed, stretched, and combed more hides than most. The next thing that I skin is going to be a black coyote. It takes a lot of time away from the family
to be a dedicated hide hunter, I almost lost my wife over time away from home hunting, then skinning, washing, stretching, combing out what we killed. It does sound nobile to save the hides and not to waste them, but I have paid the price to try and make a business out of a hobby. To each is own.

Those words sound like they come from someone who has done it and who has earned his t-shirt. Verus several who are having their t-shirts printed up at the mall.
 
You're telling me that a central Texas cat brings that much less than a central Oklahoma cat ? Spots are spots. You might consider a couple hundered bucks something to turn your nose up at ...but where else in hunting can you more or less pay for your past-time and still have enough left over , just by practicing a little careful caliber selection and care after the shot ? I don't understand the logic.

I concede that our Southern Plains coyotes will never bring what those big,pale monsters in Montana and Alberta bring. But by sheer volume alone, you can make a little back.

But you ain't the only one who's spent some time in a fur shed covered in coon grease .
 
This post seems to be wandering from best caliber to shot placement to saving hides to how much a hide is worth. After 6 pages of reading, the best I can come up with is "shot placement". If you don't hit them in the goody zone, they gonna run!! Doesn't really matter what caliber. JMO
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogThis post seems to be wandering from best caliber to shot placement to saving hides to how much a hide is worth. After 6 pages of reading, the best I can come up with is "shot placement". If you don't hit them in the goody zone, they gonna run!! Doesn't really matter what caliber. JMO

+1
 
Varminterror, you and I seem to think a lot alike. And I do use a 17 Rem. on Bobcats, Fox, Coyotes, Groundhogs, whatever, have been since it first came out. I don't much care what some folks think, the speed and RPM of that round just works great on fur.
I've tried a lot calibers before the 17 and after. Some work ok, some don't and none have been as consistently fur friendly as the 17. Like some others on here, I have skinned a lot of Coon, Fox, Bobcat, and Coyotes in my past and I can tell you I hate sewing. As far as quantities of skinning go, from 6th grade thru my first year in college I worked on a Mink Farm. We skinned an average of 5500 mink a season and I do not want to have to ever do that again.
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I'm sure many of you have skinned a lot of furry critters and so you know how hard it is to skin something with a huge exit hole.

The OP has a lot of calibers and advice to choose from. My advice is the 17 Rem., but if he wants to really insure no runners with little recoil, then the 17-204 is the route I would go.
 
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