Cracks in once-fired 17 Remington brass - HELP

J

Jeffro

New member
I just was in the process of lubing my cases that were fired for the first time yesterday. This is BRAND NEW 17 Remington cases. Out of 100 pieces, I found 7 with cracks that run from about the middle of the body up towards and to within 1/8" of the top of the body. Standing the cases side by side, the cracks appear almost identical yet each vary just a little bit. All of the cracks run the along the length of the case.

Has anyone seen this before??? I will repeat: this is new brass that was full length resized prior to being loaded one time. I thought maybe it was a "pressure sign" but one of the cases had a "silver" primer indicating one of the first 10 that I loaded with CCI-450's and 22.0 gr. Varget. The remaining 6 were loaded with Rem. 7-1/2's and only 1 of those has slight cratering around the firing pin indentation that I noticed on my near-max load of 24.4 gr. Varget behind a Berger 25 moly.

Could it be a problem with an oversize chamber (I hope not -- this is a brand new Remington Classic with only 100 rounds thru it), or just poor quality control and a bad batch of brass???
 
Jeffro I am dang sure not the last word on reloading, but I have been doing so for about 25 years and have never experianced what you are saying, at least in once fired brass.

I would doubt it is an oversized chamber , and only so as I have some experiance with reforming cases for improved calibers.
I havent had that problem even under those conditions which makes me feel that perhaps you might have gotten a lot of brittle brass.

I would try another batch and see if the problem resurfaces.
 
The problem is that it could be either one!! The only way to tell for sure is to fire some factory loads through it and see what happens to them. Primer reads for pressure can be a little misleading with the Rem 7 1/2's. Their primer cup is thicker and will hold pressure better than others. Take a set of dial calipers and measure the diameter of the case head just in front of the extractor groove on a resized case. Say it was .500 for instance. Next, measure the same on a fired one. If the measurment is slightly larger, say .5002,this means you are near a max load. If the cases are, say .5005, or larger then I would say you have high pressure loads. General rule of thumb is that .0005 thousandths expansion is max load area for non-belted magnums.
 
Jefro, It's probably bad brass, measure it and see if its within spec. Probably too hard, them machines are still run by humans, get the lot number and call the manf. Poor mans way is to take a case and crush it with pliers, then find a different caliber(223) and crush that and compare them. Try a box of factory ammo. Hope this helps.
 
I wish someone other than Remington made brass for the 17.

Having used their brass in other calibers (243, 45 ACP, 38 Super), I have noticed that their quality is not up to par with other manufacturers.

I just recently bought some Lapua 243 brass and was amazed at the quality and consistency. Sure it is more expensive, but every piece out of a batch of 100 was EXACTLY 2.035" (trim length), the primer pockets were all uniformed and there were no flashhole burrs since they are drilled instead of punched out.

I have sent Remington an e-mail outlining this problem. It will be interesting what they tell me.

Thanks for your replies.
 
Jeffro-- Be sure to post Remington's reply. A buddy of mine is having the same problem. He switched brass lots last week and said he is now up to 3-4 shots per brass.
 
Jeffro
It is bad brass. Extremely unusual failure mode, but can only be too hard cases in that area. So rare you should save some as conversation pieces.

By all rights, Remington should recall that lot. Unfortunately, their quality control has become so bad, they will probably just ignore it.

USA brass has become so poor, I only use Lapua, Norma, or IMI any more.

Jack
 
I bought this brass from Midway in 100 lot bulk so I'm not sure if there would have been a lot #.

I also thought that a piece of crud stuck in the sizing die could have scored the cases. I thoroughly cleaned the dies before use and, besides, there wasn't even a hint of a scratch on any of the remaining cases. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Jeff, Jack has got it figured out.

I have seen examples of this quite a few times over the years.

What you describe is known in military parlance as a “J” split.

It can be caused by a non-metallic inclusion in the brass cup that the case is made of, but usually when multiple cases from the same lot show this defect, it is caused by inadequate heat treatment (usually inter-draw annealing), at some point in the manufacturing process.

Your rifle is not the cause.

Mill-standard 636 “Visual inspection standards for small arms ammunition” describes and classifies various types of common defects.

J-splits do not allow any appreciable gas leakage, and are not considered to be hazardous or “Critical” in military inspections. They will not harm your rifle because the case obturates and provides a gas seal in spite of the split. That is why they do not look “sooty.”

Splits that extend farther toward the head of the case are classed as “K” or “I” splits, and may allow enough gas to escape to cause eye problems for the un-glassed, and peppered foreheads for the un-hatted.

A split that runs through the head of the case and into the primer pocket is called an “M-Split”, and is VERY dangerous. ONE “M-split” in a given lot or production run will cause the entire lot to be removed from service and destroyed.

Fortunately M-splits are very rare.

Do not load any more of the cases. Remington will probably want you to return both the fired and unfired cases, along with the Lot number from the box or bag they came in.

You always record the Lot #’s of components you buy, don’t you?

Hopefully you saved the little white box from Midway? That will have the lot#
 
I had the same problem with some factory remington ammo for my 338 win mag.Probably a batch of bad brass. Dont it piss ya off though! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
I have contacted Midway regarding this problem and was told that they have not had any other complaints. They took down my name and info in case someone else came up with the same situation.

They also said that they do not keep track of lot #'s on bulk brass. I would like to reorder from them as they have always given me good service but am afraid of getting more junk brass out of the same lot. I guess I'll wait until Remington replies, if they ever do. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
I finally received a reply from Remington's ammo testing facility in Lonoke, AR.

"We have completed our testing of the .17 Remington shells that you returned recently for review. The seven problem shells showed a metallurgical flaw known as a slip plane. This was caused by a colder than normal intermediate annealing step. This is a rare issue and does require firing of the shell to reveal the flaw in most instances.

We do work hard at trying to provide quality products to all our customers. The shell making processes are checked around the clock by both production personnel and a special support group working out of our Chem. Lab. We apologize for this level of performance you experienced and for the inconvenience.

To be fair, a reimbursement check for $33, to cover your shipping costs and to cover the purchase price of 100 .17 Remington shells (at Midway prices) will be sent from our accounting department within 15 business days. We appreciate you choosing Remington products and hope you will in the future."

BTW: I received the check 2 days after receipt of this letter. I thought it would have been cheaper to ship me 1-200 new cases, but who am I to complain. I still wish somebody else made brass for the 17.
 
Well, I'd have to say that Rem treated you fairly on this.

One thing you could do on the brass is buy some top quality .223 Remington, say some Norma or something, and neck it down. With the small necks involved I'd bet that inside neck turning as well as trimming would be required, but the neck turning is a one-time operation, so it may be worthwhile to you to consider doing this.
 
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