Decoy Dogs The New Fad?
- Thread starter DTOM
- Start date
gonzaga
New member
Heck, Tug boogered two(initially) turned out to be 3 coyotes on one stand, but he is still just a pup and charges out pretty hard when I release him too. He is used to having to chase them down to turn them around. I am gonna try to rectify that situation though( any tips would help).
I guess I should have used the word "trend" in place of "fad". It has less negative connotations.
I like a dog with a bit more aggression esp. during denning season. IMO it is easier to take some away then put it in. I like the dogs to work the coyotes hard and expect them to get out and find them if the coyote stands off and buggers. If I have the dog power I always work 2 dogs in spring and summer and change up to one if any during fur season. I always have at least one dog in the truck to find cripples. I also need my dogs to be able to backtrack to the den and hopefully get there before the dang terriers do. I take way more coyotes with dogs during spring and summer then I do all of the fur season.
Tony- I understand what you’re saying and I didn’t doubt it. I was just commenting that it is incredible. I've seen your DVD and I saw how you work the dogs and no doubt that way would be an advantage during fur season or most of the year. I get what you’re saying about a new gun every week. I have buddies that are not allowed to shoot over the dogs at all due to past indiscretions and guys shooting too early or at the wrong time. Things can get wild quick. You need to be able to keep your wits about you and not get tunnel vision on just the coyotes. Things happen fast. I always tell guys hunting with me to have "Total Situational Awareness".
By the way good job on the DVD. I know that had to be trying and time consuming but IMO you pulled it off and showed a bunch of new ideas as well as gave a fresh spin to the tried and true ideas on most other DVD's. It's not your classic "Bang Flop" video, but there is plenty of coyote hunting, it’s a whole look at Tony's world of predator hunting and a glimpse into what drives him. Very well though out and excellent quality. And it's a whole lot longer than 53 minutes.
Tim
I like a dog with a bit more aggression esp. during denning season. IMO it is easier to take some away then put it in. I like the dogs to work the coyotes hard and expect them to get out and find them if the coyote stands off and buggers. If I have the dog power I always work 2 dogs in spring and summer and change up to one if any during fur season. I always have at least one dog in the truck to find cripples. I also need my dogs to be able to backtrack to the den and hopefully get there before the dang terriers do. I take way more coyotes with dogs during spring and summer then I do all of the fur season.
Tony- I understand what you’re saying and I didn’t doubt it. I was just commenting that it is incredible. I've seen your DVD and I saw how you work the dogs and no doubt that way would be an advantage during fur season or most of the year. I get what you’re saying about a new gun every week. I have buddies that are not allowed to shoot over the dogs at all due to past indiscretions and guys shooting too early or at the wrong time. Things can get wild quick. You need to be able to keep your wits about you and not get tunnel vision on just the coyotes. Things happen fast. I always tell guys hunting with me to have "Total Situational Awareness".
By the way good job on the DVD. I know that had to be trying and time consuming but IMO you pulled it off and showed a bunch of new ideas as well as gave a fresh spin to the tried and true ideas on most other DVD's. It's not your classic "Bang Flop" video, but there is plenty of coyote hunting, it’s a whole look at Tony's world of predator hunting and a glimpse into what drives him. Very well though out and excellent quality. And it's a whole lot longer than 53 minutes.
Tim
Workman
New member
Tim, I understand where you're coming from on this. Based on what you're talking about regarding diluting working stock especially. There has definitely been a trend in marketing decoy/tolling dogs with "Joe Somebody" Govt. hunter's name attached. I don't think its necessarily a bad thing, but I definitely see your concern regarding "quality control" with factors like indiscriminate breeding and lack of culling being common factors when a hunting/working breed becomes a commodity.
The other side of the coin is that "good" stock becomes accesible to a larger number of folks and that the growth has a positive affect on the understanding that the everyday hunter has of decoy/tolling/denning types of dogs. I see the "trend" as a mostly positive thing that comes from predator callers/hunters wanting to add another dimension to their hunting pursuits and wanting to have a dog along, I know that is a draw for me.
I hope that this new found popularity has a positive affect on everything concerned, but like I mentioned at first, I understand where you're coming from when you are apprehensive about it. We've both seen the direction working terriers have taken since their popularity boomed.
-Brian
The other side of the coin is that "good" stock becomes accesible to a larger number of folks and that the growth has a positive affect on the understanding that the everyday hunter has of decoy/tolling/denning types of dogs. I see the "trend" as a mostly positive thing that comes from predator callers/hunters wanting to add another dimension to their hunting pursuits and wanting to have a dog along, I know that is a draw for me.
I hope that this new found popularity has a positive affect on everything concerned, but like I mentioned at first, I understand where you're coming from when you are apprehensive about it. We've both seen the direction working terriers have taken since their popularity boomed.
-Brian
TonyTebbe
New member
I just got back from night calling...it was more of case of "night decoying".
We called up 9 different coyotes this evening and every one of them acted like they read the same script. Come charging or trotting in and hit the magic 400 yard mark and not cross the line. After the third stand of this, I started casting Gunner on hung up coyotes. He worked a couple singles and a pair, but they all would not cross that 400 yard line back to us. Our last stand, I cast him 3 different times to get a coyote that would stay out 600+ yards. Each time, the coyote would follow him back on a string...right to the 300 yard mark, then head back. Frustrated, yet exciting action, we called it a night and heading to bed to wake up in 3 hours and do it all again.
I know it's a bit off topic, but this is why I love using a dog. Even on night calling stands, it can really add some excitement.
PS. I really appreciate the comments on the DVD. It's something you work hard on, then sit back and wonder if anyone would even like it. Thank you for the fine comments. Made my day.
Thanks...
Tony
I know it's a bit off topic, but this is why I love using a dog. Even on night calling stands, it can really add some excitement.
PS. I really appreciate the comments on the DVD. It's something you work hard on, then sit back and wonder if anyone would even like it. Thank you for the fine comments. Made my day.
Thanks...
Tony
knockemdown
New member
Fad, or maybe just timing on my end...
I'm certainly NOT qualified to speak on the topic of decoy dogs, but given the recent pics of the litter my pup came from, I'm feeling kinda 'lumped in' on this topic. So here's my story...
Our 'shop' dog at work passed away last May. He was 17 and the meanest SOB you ever saw! I'd been wanting a dog for sooooo long, but being that I work 10-12 hrs a day, I'd have to bring my dog to work every day. I'm not the type to like keeping a dog holed up all day at home alone, makes no sense to me!
Anyhoo, there was just no way that I could bring a pup to work with me as long as "OJ" was still alive, cause he'd undoubtedly kill it. (yes he really was that mean)
So when "OJ" passed and a few months went by, opportunity arose for me to finally get a pup. I got to lookin' around for one that'd suit me best. I've owned a couple of bulldogs, and anyone who's owned a bulldog knows the liability of having one. Coupled with the facts that I wanted a dog to hunt with me and I'm over the 'tough dog' phase of my adolescense, the bulldog option was out...
Here along somewhere I saw Evan's ad for mt. cur pups. First sight of that trampoline puppy picture, I knew which one was my boy! My family was going through a very difficult time, and frankly I kinda needed a furry buddy, for my own selfish reasons. That may sound 'ghey', but that's what happened. After a couple phone calls, and some planning, we had Pokey on a plane to NY...
Since then, Pokey has been with me EVERYWHERE. He is our new 'shop' dog at work and is already a super watchdog, both there & at home. He runs 3-5 miles a day after work, every day, in a wooded area where he can chase squirrels and track coons til his heart's content. His 'gamey' nature has sure blossomed along the way. Far as I can tell, at least, since I haven't a clue what I'm doing...
Being a coyote caller, I sure do want him to be an asset to my stands though. Fact of the matter is that coyotes are sorta hard to come by in these parts, so I can't give Pokey the exposure to coyotes he needs to make him a real 'decoy dog'. So then, I've got to rely on whatever instincts he's got and roll with 'em & try not to get my pup 'wrecked' too badly in the mean time...
Most importantly, I'm literally having the time of my life with the pup!!! Pokey constantly impresses and teaches me what he likes to do. If he turns out to "decoy" some coyotes for me, then all the better. If not, then I'm good with that, too. Which is easy, since I've not the inclination to develop a line of dogs, for sale or otherwise. But I certainly didn't get my pup solely as a 'decoy dog'...
So, here I am, I'm stuck with exactly what I wanted! An endless source of joy & entertainment wrapped up in 42 lbs. of short red fur. I'm [beeep] proud to own him & I thank Evan for the opportunity...
If that's considered following a fad, then I'm guilty as charged!
I'm certainly NOT qualified to speak on the topic of decoy dogs, but given the recent pics of the litter my pup came from, I'm feeling kinda 'lumped in' on this topic. So here's my story...
Our 'shop' dog at work passed away last May. He was 17 and the meanest SOB you ever saw! I'd been wanting a dog for sooooo long, but being that I work 10-12 hrs a day, I'd have to bring my dog to work every day. I'm not the type to like keeping a dog holed up all day at home alone, makes no sense to me!
Anyhoo, there was just no way that I could bring a pup to work with me as long as "OJ" was still alive, cause he'd undoubtedly kill it. (yes he really was that mean)
So when "OJ" passed and a few months went by, opportunity arose for me to finally get a pup. I got to lookin' around for one that'd suit me best. I've owned a couple of bulldogs, and anyone who's owned a bulldog knows the liability of having one. Coupled with the facts that I wanted a dog to hunt with me and I'm over the 'tough dog' phase of my adolescense, the bulldog option was out...
Here along somewhere I saw Evan's ad for mt. cur pups. First sight of that trampoline puppy picture, I knew which one was my boy! My family was going through a very difficult time, and frankly I kinda needed a furry buddy, for my own selfish reasons. That may sound 'ghey', but that's what happened. After a couple phone calls, and some planning, we had Pokey on a plane to NY...
Since then, Pokey has been with me EVERYWHERE. He is our new 'shop' dog at work and is already a super watchdog, both there & at home. He runs 3-5 miles a day after work, every day, in a wooded area where he can chase squirrels and track coons til his heart's content. His 'gamey' nature has sure blossomed along the way. Far as I can tell, at least, since I haven't a clue what I'm doing...
Being a coyote caller, I sure do want him to be an asset to my stands though. Fact of the matter is that coyotes are sorta hard to come by in these parts, so I can't give Pokey the exposure to coyotes he needs to make him a real 'decoy dog'. So then, I've got to rely on whatever instincts he's got and roll with 'em & try not to get my pup 'wrecked' too badly in the mean time...
Most importantly, I'm literally having the time of my life with the pup!!! Pokey constantly impresses and teaches me what he likes to do. If he turns out to "decoy" some coyotes for me, then all the better. If not, then I'm good with that, too. Which is easy, since I've not the inclination to develop a line of dogs, for sale or otherwise. But I certainly didn't get my pup solely as a 'decoy dog'...
So, here I am, I'm stuck with exactly what I wanted! An endless source of joy & entertainment wrapped up in 42 lbs. of short red fur. I'm [beeep] proud to own him & I thank Evan for the opportunity...
If that's considered following a fad, then I'm guilty as charged!
Dustballs
New member
Originally Posted By: TonyTebbeI just got back from night calling...it was more of case of "night decoying".
We called up 9 different coyotes this evening and every one of them acted like they read the same script. Come charging or trotting in and hit the magic 400 yard mark and not cross the line. After the third stand of this, I started casting Gunner on hung up coyotes. He worked a couple singles and a pair, but they all would not cross that 400 yard line back to us. Our last stand, I cast him 3 different times to get a coyote that would stay out 600+ yards. Each time, the coyote would follow him back on a string...right to the 300 yard mark, then head back. Frustrated, yet exciting action, we called it a night and heading to bed to wake up in 3 hours and do it all again.
I know it's a bit off topic, but this is why I love using a dog. Even on night calling stands, it can really add some excitement.
PS. I really appreciate the comments on the DVD. It's something you work hard on, then sit back and wonder if anyone would even like it. Thank you for the fine comments. Made my day.
Thanks...
Tony
To add a little more to this. Do you think the coyotes would have came in closer had a dog not been on stand with you? Do you add these 9 to the ones that buggered cause the dog was there?
I know it's a bit off topic, but this is why I love using a dog. Even on night calling stands, it can really add some excitement.
PS. I really appreciate the comments on the DVD. It's something you work hard on, then sit back and wonder if anyone would even like it. Thank you for the fine comments. Made my day.
Thanks...
Tony
To add a little more to this. Do you think the coyotes would have came in closer had a dog not been on stand with you? Do you add these 9 to the ones that buggered cause the dog was there?
Originally Posted By: gonzagaSo what type of dog do you use, or have you adapted your dogs to fit your needs? I guess what I am asking is what breed or breed type do you like for what you are using them for D Tom?
I currently work Mtn. Curs for decoy work. I've also got a Mt.Cur/ Blue Lacy mix that is my current top dog at almost 10 yo. I've been lucky as I have a few old timers who I consider friends and have been able to get decent dogs from their lines but they seem to be fewer and fewer in numbers each year. We, as a community, are losing a ton of knowledge and exp. almost daily as the older generation moves on to the calling stand in the sky. These guys really lived the life and didn't have any of the modern tech. to help. They did it all with determination and hard drive. Just like their dogs.
Just by hunting the dogs the way I want I have adapted them to my needs. I demand a lot from the dogs both at home, in the truck, and on stand. I want what I want and I'm not afraid of the hard work that carries me to my final goal. My dogs, like me, are far from perfect but they work for my style.
I have in the past worked a bunch of curs and a couple DD's. I grew up with Curs and Airedales. I don't get too hung up on the breed as I have seen a mixed variety of breeds who work well. In my mind the most important aspect of dogs is the training you put in them the first few years and then constant exposure to coyotes/game. I have and still do drive thousands of miles putting the dogs on coyotes. I'm blessed with a good amount of "free" time and an understanding wife that loves the dogs.
Workman- That's exactly what I was thinking of. I know I cull hard and the only pass a dog gets is once they are too old to work and have gave me a lifetime of hard, consistent work they get to retire. I'm not the guy who passes on his old stock or culls due to age. I wish I could as it always seems that I am "old dog" heavy but those dogs and me have shared so much over the years that I feel as if I owe them a comfortable life until they pass on.
Knock 'em Down- There is nothing wrong with having a buddy first and then a hunting dog. Just keep at it and do what you can to help him along. You have some big coyotes in NY and good numbers in some areas. If you do head out and find a few coyotes that will work the dog let them live unless they get too bold and aggressive. I've found ones that work the dog good can usually be counted on to work it over and over and a coyote like that is priceless while training. For years I had a mated pair here on my place that I used to work the dogs on and it was really like frosting on the cake.
Tony I also run the dogs at night. Nights like you described are very fustrating. It's like they all read the same page out of the same play book. Still it's better than no seeing anything. Which also happens. LOL.
Keep at it guys. I'm out the door to hunt the terriers before the kill season on coon ends.
Tim
I currently work Mtn. Curs for decoy work. I've also got a Mt.Cur/ Blue Lacy mix that is my current top dog at almost 10 yo. I've been lucky as I have a few old timers who I consider friends and have been able to get decent dogs from their lines but they seem to be fewer and fewer in numbers each year. We, as a community, are losing a ton of knowledge and exp. almost daily as the older generation moves on to the calling stand in the sky. These guys really lived the life and didn't have any of the modern tech. to help. They did it all with determination and hard drive. Just like their dogs.
Just by hunting the dogs the way I want I have adapted them to my needs. I demand a lot from the dogs both at home, in the truck, and on stand. I want what I want and I'm not afraid of the hard work that carries me to my final goal. My dogs, like me, are far from perfect but they work for my style.
I have in the past worked a bunch of curs and a couple DD's. I grew up with Curs and Airedales. I don't get too hung up on the breed as I have seen a mixed variety of breeds who work well. In my mind the most important aspect of dogs is the training you put in them the first few years and then constant exposure to coyotes/game. I have and still do drive thousands of miles putting the dogs on coyotes. I'm blessed with a good amount of "free" time and an understanding wife that loves the dogs.
Workman- That's exactly what I was thinking of. I know I cull hard and the only pass a dog gets is once they are too old to work and have gave me a lifetime of hard, consistent work they get to retire. I'm not the guy who passes on his old stock or culls due to age. I wish I could as it always seems that I am "old dog" heavy but those dogs and me have shared so much over the years that I feel as if I owe them a comfortable life until they pass on.
Knock 'em Down- There is nothing wrong with having a buddy first and then a hunting dog. Just keep at it and do what you can to help him along. You have some big coyotes in NY and good numbers in some areas. If you do head out and find a few coyotes that will work the dog let them live unless they get too bold and aggressive. I've found ones that work the dog good can usually be counted on to work it over and over and a coyote like that is priceless while training. For years I had a mated pair here on my place that I used to work the dogs on and it was really like frosting on the cake.
Tony I also run the dogs at night. Nights like you described are very fustrating. It's like they all read the same page out of the same play book. Still it's better than no seeing anything. Which also happens. LOL.
Keep at it guys. I'm out the door to hunt the terriers before the kill season on coon ends.
Tim
knockemdown
New member
he's been trying for months now, but they were twice his size back then!!!
Thanks for the advice, DTOM. We actually have a coyote season here in NY, so I'll be messing around with the 'catch & release' idea once April turns over. And maybe going over into PA to keep after them with firepower in reserve...
Thanks for the advice, DTOM. We actually have a coyote season here in NY, so I'll be messing around with the 'catch & release' idea once April turns over. And maybe going over into PA to keep after them with firepower in reserve...
TonyTebbe
New member
Quote:To add a little more to this. Do you think the coyotes would have came in closer had a dog not been on stand with you? Do you add these 9 to the ones that buggered cause the dog was there?
Are you kidding me? I only casted Gunner on coyotes that were just plain hung up and not going to come in. We're talking 20 minutes of lipsqueaking till my lips were dryer than the Sahara Desert.
Every stand was the same playbook. No, they would have not come in without the dog...nor a T-bone steak. These don't even count in coyotes that bugger due to the dog. They didn't bugger at all, they actually decoyed well, just wouldn't commit all the way to the call. See it happen quite a bit. I call it "curious, but not committed". It's just part of calling.
Tony
Are you kidding me? I only casted Gunner on coyotes that were just plain hung up and not going to come in. We're talking 20 minutes of lipsqueaking till my lips were dryer than the Sahara Desert.
Tony
Boeydafunk
New member
The short answer is yes. Coyote hunting is gaining popularity, but will eventually IMO fade out for a lot of guys and they will move onto something else. This site is often frequented by people who are more "permanent" in their love to hunt coyotes, so the answers you find here will likely be not the norm in the coyote hunting community. I think the same things for dogs. The people who post here for the most part know of the challenges of hunting with a decoy dog and have done what they can to help each other overcome those challenges. But the "average" guy who grabs any ol pup from a buddy and takes him out will not be using a dog in the next five years. Again IMO.