Deer - BLACK bear caliber
- Thread starter wraithen
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bigsky_songdogs
Active member
Black bear are no harder to take down than a deer, any medium-caliber rifle will serve you well with a good bullet.
If you plan to use an FMJ then just stay home and read up on hunting bullets.
If you plan to use an FMJ then just stay home and read up on hunting bullets.
Sorry for the confusion guys, the topic should not say brown bear. No I haven't been hunting long. I know for a fact though how devastating that little tiny .223 can be on people so I don't imagine bambi has any great kind of armor system. I guessed fmj for bear because I was under the impression that getting through the fat and fur on a bear might prove difficult with a 270 unless it was an FMJ. I'm new to all of this guys so use the kid gloves for now please.
.270 ain't no pellet gun.
It's got well enough power to punch through a black bear with a well constructed, solid, expanding medium-large game bullet.
Such as a Hornaday Interlock, Remington Core-lokt, Federal Trophy Bonded Bullets, Nosler Partition, Nosler Accubond, etc.....
130 gr. would be more than suitable for deer. For bear I would maybe bump up to 150 gr.
It's got well enough power to punch through a black bear with a well constructed, solid, expanding medium-large game bullet.
Such as a Hornaday Interlock, Remington Core-lokt, Federal Trophy Bonded Bullets, Nosler Partition, Nosler Accubond, etc.....
130 gr. would be more than suitable for deer. For bear I would maybe bump up to 150 gr.
NdIndy
New member
Deer caliber = black bear caliber except 243 is too light imo for things with claws. Just use a good bullet.
223 with fmj is designed to wound and not kill men. Its the 'friendly' way we go to war.
Off the top of my head and hitting normal calibers
7mm-08
270
308
30-06
30-30/7.62x39
7mm mag
300 mag
And onwards/upwards.
223 with fmj is designed to wound and not kill men. Its the 'friendly' way we go to war.
Off the top of my head and hitting normal calibers
7mm-08
270
308
30-06
30-30/7.62x39
7mm mag
300 mag
And onwards/upwards.
bigsky_songdogs
Active member
a good bullet is the most important part of any cartridge and killing an animal. ive killed 3 bears with my 243 while deer hunting in MT with partitions and no issues. Black bears dont have armored skin and are no harder to kill than a deer.
One note of caution though, bears do have very tough muscular shoulders, so thats why it is so important to use a quality bullet. If you do you wont have any problems.
Please do not use FMJs on any big game, its not ethical or effecient. You will only regret it if you do
One note of caution though, bears do have very tough muscular shoulders, so thats why it is so important to use a quality bullet. If you do you wont have any problems.
Please do not use FMJs on any big game, its not ethical or effecient. You will only regret it if you do
frozenbutt
New member
Killed my blacks and all my deer with a 12 gauge slug. Slugs bleeds a bear out real quick.
Sorry had to.
Sorry had to.
frozenbutt
New member
Originally Posted By: getfoxyBreak the shoulder and they don't go anywhere
Sure they will.
They will go down.
Sure they will.
They will go down.
Originally Posted By: NdIndy223 with fmj is designed to wound and not kill men. Its the 'friendly' way we go to war.
WRONG! The FMJ is designed to go through body armor. Then intertia differential between the steal core and copper jacket take over and start the bullet tumbling. It is designed to KILL, plain and simple. The reason they do not work on game is, well, because they deer do not wear flak jackets!!
There are graves all over the world to the contrary of this rediculas comment. War is designed to kill people and break their chit! I really have no idea where this senseless notion was started!!
Is that why we still use 2000 lb bombs with Air Burst on troop movements? Or maybe it the 105 hanging out of a AC-130??
WRONG! The FMJ is designed to go through body armor. Then intertia differential between the steal core and copper jacket take over and start the bullet tumbling. It is designed to KILL, plain and simple. The reason they do not work on game is, well, because they deer do not wear flak jackets!!
There are graves all over the world to the contrary of this rediculas comment. War is designed to kill people and break their chit! I really have no idea where this senseless notion was started!!
Is that why we still use 2000 lb bombs with Air Burst on troop movements? Or maybe it the 105 hanging out of a AC-130??
Actually the use of FMJ was agreed to before the advent of modern "flak" body armor. It's not what it's meant for.
Excerpt from the 1899 International Peace Conference at The Hague, which entered into force on September 4, 1900:
Quote:The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions. The present Declaration is only binding for the Contracting Powers in the case of a war between two or more of them.
Snipers use matchking because On 12 October 1990, another Memorandum of Law from Parks at the request of the Commander of the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) and coordinated with the Department of State, Army General Counsel, as well as the Offices of the Judge Advocates General of the Navy and Air Force, concluded that:
Quote:The purpose of the 7.62mm "open-tip" MatchKing bullet is to provide maximum accuracy at very long range. ... Bullet fragmentation is not a design characteristic, however, nor a purpose for use of the MatchKing by United States Army snipers. Wounds caused by MatchKing ammunition are similar to those caused by a fully jacketed military ball bullet, which is legal under the law of war, when compared at the same ranges and under the same conditions. (The Sierra #2200 BTHP) not only meets, but exceeds, the law of war obligations of the United States for use in combat."
The use of the FMJ was agreed upon in 1899 because it was viewed as a more "humane" bullet, as opposed to expanding or shredding bullets, that cause excessive damage and "potential suffering", because FMJ bullets were considered "cleaner" and enough to cause sufficient deadly force.
Excerpt from the 1899 International Peace Conference at The Hague, which entered into force on September 4, 1900:
Quote:The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions. The present Declaration is only binding for the Contracting Powers in the case of a war between two or more of them.
Snipers use matchking because On 12 October 1990, another Memorandum of Law from Parks at the request of the Commander of the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) and coordinated with the Department of State, Army General Counsel, as well as the Offices of the Judge Advocates General of the Navy and Air Force, concluded that:
Quote:The purpose of the 7.62mm "open-tip" MatchKing bullet is to provide maximum accuracy at very long range. ... Bullet fragmentation is not a design characteristic, however, nor a purpose for use of the MatchKing by United States Army snipers. Wounds caused by MatchKing ammunition are similar to those caused by a fully jacketed military ball bullet, which is legal under the law of war, when compared at the same ranges and under the same conditions. (The Sierra #2200 BTHP) not only meets, but exceeds, the law of war obligations of the United States for use in combat."
The use of the FMJ was agreed upon in 1899 because it was viewed as a more "humane" bullet, as opposed to expanding or shredding bullets, that cause excessive damage and "potential suffering", because FMJ bullets were considered "cleaner" and enough to cause sufficient deadly force.
calling4life
New member
Marlin 4570, federal fusion for whitetails, garrets hammerhead for bear, just in case you have to stop it from making you its $h!t.
Originally Posted By: pahntr760^^^Ok, sure enough. But they do kill...^^^
But with the introduction of body armors, the FMJ works even better...
True enough. I'm just givin' ya a hard time brother.
But interestingly enough....
We are adapting though, from the traditional M855 FMJ round, to the new "SOST" round.
Quote:Compared to the M855, SOST rounds also stay on target longer in open air and have increased stopping power through “consistent, rapid fragmentation which shortens the time required to cause incapacitation of enemy combatants,” At 62 grains,.... they have a typical lead core with a solid copper shank and are considered a variation of Federal Cartridge Co.’s Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw round, which was developed for big-game hunting and is touted for its ability to crush bone.
They started issuing these thing to select units for fielding when I was in the Marines, and they are flippin' awesome out of an M16.
But with the introduction of body armors, the FMJ works even better...
True enough. I'm just givin' ya a hard time brother.
But interestingly enough....
We are adapting though, from the traditional M855 FMJ round, to the new "SOST" round.
Quote:Compared to the M855, SOST rounds also stay on target longer in open air and have increased stopping power through “consistent, rapid fragmentation which shortens the time required to cause incapacitation of enemy combatants,” At 62 grains,.... they have a typical lead core with a solid copper shank and are considered a variation of Federal Cartridge Co.’s Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw round, which was developed for big-game hunting and is touted for its ability to crush bone.
They started issuing these thing to select units for fielding when I was in the Marines, and they are flippin' awesome out of an M16.
Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the info. Seems most of it is pretty dead on. I think I'm narrowed down to .270, .308, and 30-06 for ammo availability and practice costs. I really would like either a black gun or a lever gun for the cool factor but I may just end up paying savage again. Although this next round I'm spending more and getting something with a detachable box mag. I now realize I HATE internal non-removable mags. Again, thanks for all the advice so far gentlemen.