Dies for reloading for an AR rifle.

5.56 mm NATO versus .223 Remington

The 5.56 mm NATO and .223 Remington cartridges and chamberings are similar but not identical. Military 5.56×45mm cases are often made thicker and therefore have less case capacity.[17] However, the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure. NATO EPVAT test barrels made for 5.56 mm NATO measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the location used by the United States civil standards organization SAAMI. The piezoelectric sensors or transducers NATO and SAAMI use to conduct the actual pressure measurements also differ. This difference in measurement method accounts for upwards of 20,000 psi (140 MPa) difference in pressure measurements. This means the NATO EPVAT maximum service pressure of 430 MPa (62,000 psi) for 5.56 mm NATO, is reduced by SAAMI to 55,000 psi (380 MPa) for .223 Remington.[18] In contrast to SAAMI, the other main civil standards organization C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO

This whole article is an intresting read, sorry the link won't work. So they measure it differently, and I'm confused as to why! Seems that most are too. I think the last line says it all, CatShooter is right.... I think.

Sorry to the OP for getting off topic.
 
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Originally Posted By: ninehorses5.56 mm NATO versus .223 Remington

The 5.56 mm NATO and .223 Remington cartridges and chamberings are similar but not identical. Military 5.56×45mm cases are often made thicker and therefore have less case capacity.[17] However, the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure. NATO EPVAT test barrels made for 5.56 mm NATO measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the location used by the United States civil standards organization SAAMI. The piezoelectric sensors or transducers NATO and SAAMI use to conduct the actual pressure measurements also differ. This difference in measurement method accounts for upwards of 20,000 psi (140 MPa) difference in pressure measurements. This means the NATO EPVAT maximum service pressure of 430 MPa (62,000 psi) for 5.56 mm NATO, is reduced by SAAMI to 55,000 psi (380 MPa) for .223 Remington.[18] In contrast to SAAMI, the other main civil standards organization C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO

This whole article is an intresting read, sorry the link won't work. So they measure it differently, and I'm confused as to why! Seems that most are too. I think the last line says it all, CatShooter is right.... I think.

Sorry to the OP for getting off topic.


There is a rumor that military brass is ALWAYS heavier.

It is true in 308/7.62x51, but it is NOT TRUE in 223/5.56x47mm

Here is an interesting like (from which the below weights are taken)

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

The weights of current 223/5.56 brass.

Brass Manufacturer Aver. Wt.

Lapua (new lot) 93.35
Lapua (old production) 104
Hornady 93.88
Federal 96.28
Lake City '04 92.97
WCC 99 95.5 (20)
IMG (Guatemalan) 95.42 (25)
PMP 104.4 (50)
Radway 96.05 (50)
PMC 93.48 (20)
Remington 92.33 (50)
Winchester 93.91 (44)

I'm pretty right a lot - mostly because I am very careful as to what I say...

... and last year I made almost 1,000,000 rounds of 223/5.56x47 ammo (+ a bunch of other calibers).

I work in the ammunition business, and own a consulting company in ballistic research.
 
I ran across that in my research, and it threw up red flags and made me go weigh some cases. Most ammo sites and reloading manuals repeat the same bad information on their .223/5.56 NATO info pages. Lets just say I'm and old dog, and it takes a while to UNLEARN what you've read all your life. NOW I'm up to speed. I read and learned more about pressure testing than I care to know last night.

You came across a little strong in your post, and I got my hackles up. You and I might need to work on that
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Originally Posted By: ninehorsesI ran across that in my research, and it threw up red flags and made me go weigh some cases. Most ammo sites and reloading manuals repeat the same bad information on their .223/5.56 NATO info pages. Lets just say I'm and old dog, and it takes a while to UNLEARN what you've read all your life. NOW I'm up to speed. I read and learned more about pressure testing than I care to know last night.

You came across a little strong in your post, and I got my hackles up. You and I might need to work on that
smile.gif


Sorry I tickled your hackles (I don't have no stinkin' hackles
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)

When someone makes a definitive statement (A STATEMENT OF FACT), which is not true, there's not too many ways you can put lipstick on that pig.

"Know ye the truth, and the truth will set you free."

I have never been accused of dancing around something - I shoot straight (a pun, considering the website, but none the less)...

Meow
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Originally Posted By: ninehorses Most ammo sites and reloading manuals repeat the same bad information on their .223/5.56 NATO info pages.

YES.. and many websites have and repeat bad info on all kinds of things, and the new guys (and old ones too) repeat it and get in too deep to get out gracefully.

The shooting industry is rife with wives tales - even coming from people that should know better.

It is especially a big problem on this website, where there are a lot of guys that pass on wives-tales, and find themselves up to their arm pits in BS.
 
I run small base dies and don't crimp, haven't had a problem since moving to SB dies. Gimmick or not they solved my problems. I also use mostly LC brass.
 
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Originally Posted By: RowdyRawhideI run small base dies and don't crimp, haven't had a problem since moving to SB dies. Gimmick or not they solved my problems. I also use mostly LC brass.
Who ground the reamer that cut your chamber??

Jack
 
Originally Posted By: RowdyRawhideI run small base dies and don't crimp, haven't had a problem since moving to SB dies. Gimmick or not they solved my problems. I also use mostly LC brass.

I use the Dillon Carbide FL sizer for the first sizing of mil surp cases - it is a small base sizer and brings the base of the body to the same diameter as the head - no base bulge. When doing the first sizing, I use the Redding Comp shell holders to allow longer headspace, and set the headspace for a crush fit in the rifle.

Then I polish them - the cases look better than new brass, and without the bulge at the base of the case. I use LC and IMI once fired cases.

Everyone that is a serious shooter knows that pretty ammo shoots much better than ugly ammo
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Meow
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I use Hornady's headspace gauge, that way I don't excessively push back the shoulders on my brass... I have a dozen AR in 17, 20, 22, and 30 cal. Great product, kick myself every time I think of all the years i didn't have one..
http://www.hornady.com/store/Headspace-Gauge-Kits/



Originally Posted By: flyinlizard1 Ok I am very strongly thinking about buying my first AR rifle. Most likely a RRA or Bushy in .223rem. I have been reloading for 30+ years but never for a semi-auto. I assume that full length sizing is always required. While looking at dies I noticed some say they are designed for AR rifles and size the base smaller. Is that needed or will regular FL sizing dies work. Thanks in advance. Paul
 
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