Difficulty getting an FFL nowadays?

Hidalgo

Hidalgo

Well-known member
How hard is it to get an FFL currently?

I have heard "rumors" that you must have a store front in order to be approved. Then the local PD has to approve the location. Any truth to this?

I could definitely qualify from a background basis.... unless they hold it against me for being a member here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I have not had any problems finding FFL'. My FFL works out of a Real Estate office. But even here In " Republik Of Commiefornia" they arent hard to find..
 
I was kind of interested in an FFL, too. I asked my friend who used to have one. He pretty much said you don't want one. Because of all the paperwork, and then you have to hold on to this paperwork. It sounds like a huge responsibility. I think thats why he tried to discourage me from getting one.
 
That and the renewal fees have increased substantially...I believe that the individuals around here that had FFL's, let them go because of the renewal fees.

I do believe they've made the requirements to fit a store front situation.
 
Go to the ATF's website and look up the rules to obtain an FFL. That will either encourage or discourage you from going further. They will also send you the application if you want.

I had one for quite a few years, but was more of a hobby gunsmith than a full time business. It just got to expensive for me.
 
We just changed FFL's and other than finally meeting my first ATF agent (a real nice guy)I can not say it is any different than 10 years ago. The store front requirement is not a mandate from ATF it is a local or state thing. Where we are, you CAN have an FFL in your home. The fees really have not changed much beyond inflation since the 80's unless you are talking about destructive devices. Yes the paperwork and tax requirements are a real headache......but they will be for any business today. I will be honest, as a manufacturer, keeping up with the Virginia state tax deposits and records is just as bad as the Federal Excise Tax requirements. As far as local police approval; the only ATF requirement it that they be notified...all other rules are local.
 
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I could definitely qualify from a background basis.... unless they hold it against me for being a member here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif



I got a good laugh out of that one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif, they might, but you are in good company /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
How difficult it is, is dependant on your situtaton. You are required to have place of business with "SET" hours. The store front can be a room in your house with public access. Their intent is that you are actually engaged in a business, not jut ordering for yourself and frields.

You will have to get documentation from you local police acknowledging they know you are selling firearms. Can they veto your location... I'm not really sure when I looked at it I never got that far. You will also have to have safe storage for the guns which is a very vague statement but there are many options.

I looked at this mid year last year and had several long conversation with the local BATF agents (they are very helpful). Unfortunately my employer nixed me doing it. They said it would be detrimental to the banks image if the collector was an arms dealer.

Feel free to PM me if you want to draw on anything I learned.
 
I had a friend that just passed away and he held a FFL for over 25 years and about 15 years ago was required to have a separate entrance and structure separate from his house, he converted a small tool shed that was attached behind his car port to meet the requirement.

When they (BATF) came in and required him to have a distinct separation from his "For Sale" firearms from his "Personal Firearms" and to have regular hours posted, he gave up his license.

This was in a small town (pop. 1500) so it wasn't a local business requirement.

His wife was just asking what she needed to do with all the files of records he had been saving.... One more headache...

The various administrative requirements seem to be dependent on who the president is in office... I would anticipate if the Dems get in power, things will get a lot tougher.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
ATF has always looked at location of the business and zoneing as well as personal background. It used to be one could get an FFL and operate a business by appointment only they no longer allow that and you are supposed to have regular hours and be open to the public. IMO the ATF has been steadily makeing it harder to get an FFL and makeing it harder to keep one, suspending them for such things as handwriting on the forms doted I's and crossed T's that sort of BS. I think since the ATF is run by the same anti gun ultra lib folk who have about taken over our government they are slowly and stesdily takeing gun rights by attrition. No dealers no firearms in public possesion. Same as with ammunition and getting local ordinaces passed to make ammunition and components hard to get or store with out huge cash outlays. I hear in Kalifornicate they have a law that every gun owner has got to have locks and/or a safe' sure it is good securaty but just one more burden on the casual gun owner. Say an average guy with say a deer rifle a rimfire and a shot gun and maybe a handgun why should he have to spend hundreds of bucks on a safe? I can see it for folks like me I have several centerfire rifles, four or five shot guns and a few rimfires and several handguns. I have two locking cabnets one holds five long guns and the other holds twelve, and I have a few things hid in places around the house. I need to get a good fireproof safe that will hold a couple dozen long guns, and truat me it is on the list of things to do. But I will be GDed if any government pin head is going to tell me I have to, or what sort I have to get. Sorry for the rant I get going on this stuff and get off track somtimes.
 
As of current, there is no federal policy that requires a separate place of business for FFL holders. As I stated before many (read most) states and local governments have enacted additional constraints on firearms dealers. These laws and ordinances will be a matter of discussion between any prospective dealer and ATF.
It is true that once you are a dealer you must keep clear and concise records accounting for ALL firearms on premises. Some people remove personal firearms to a separate location. Some simply keep a personal firearms record book. In short, if ATF comes to visit; every firearm must be accounted for in either your personal record book or your dealer record book.
 
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Last I heard the cost was around $600 seemed like it was justa way to weed out the weekenders.
I have a friend that retired last year with a gun store. He sold over 40,000 guns. Over 500 the week he closed. It was crowded.
The paper work was a nightmare for him. Although they were very meticulous it is hard to imagine how you can innocently get boxed in to trouble.
I was around when the ATF would pop in unannounced to check the books. No official attire, they would like a construction worker or hunter hanging around then show a badge and ask to see the books.
You are required to keep all paper work as long as you are in business, and duplicate copies here for the state even after you go out of business for something like 10 years.
The FBI or ATF could call anytime for a record search that you are required to do in a timely manner(right now) at your expense. I saw his wife doing lenghty searches through 40,000 documents time & time again. A couple times the ATF would call the next day saying Oh we made a mistake it was another dealer.
When he closed he had to get permission at several levels(nearly impossible) to transfer the document to ATF ownership. He had to hire a bonded carrier to transport them. During transport he was called for several searches and even threatened by the ATF for failure to comply even though he had permission.
The worst problems for him came doing FFL transfers(Nightmare) and people who LIE having legal issues. I have seen gun transfer be approved, then have the ATF call revoking it as he is handing over the gun. Or have the waiting period with the ATF approve and the local police department say NO Go.
The list goes on but you are not selling candy bars so you need to be able to read or judge people. It is so easy for you to end up on the wrong side.
Here is an actual example, A guy walks in well dressed asking to do an FFL transfer. He agrees to the fee and says he knows about the form requirements/waiting period. He sends the signed FFL to the seller. The gun comes in but the buyer fails approval. The seller refuses to take the gun back. So now my friend has this guys gun he paid for but can't let him have it. The guy is pissed. After 1 year my friend is required to pay the ATF to field destroy the weapon.
 
A type 01 (dealer) or type 02 (pawnbroker) in firearms other than destructive devices initial application is $200 per 3 years. Type 07 (manufacturer of firearms) is $150 per 3 years. Type 9-11 deal with destructive devices and are $3000 per 3 years. This information is straight off our application from December last year.
I am the first to admit that being a dealer is not for every one. You must be able to keep accurate concise records and be able to use them (thank god for computers). It is definitely not a part time gig. It is also not a way to get rich. However, most dealers are what they are because they enjoy it, and it should be no other way.
There are many posts here that say something like "I knew a dealer who......". I could also relate many horror stories, but the fact is, ATF is no different that any other governmental agency and obtaining and maintaining a FFL is only a small part of a successful firearm business.
 
Thanks for the info guys! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

I think I'm going to pass on it for the immediate future. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Actually dealing with the ATF is quite different than dealing with many other government agencies. One clerical error can land you in serious trouble quick. An out right mistake can have severe consequences.
If you sell a gun here or there by the book it can be simple. Now if you start getting busy with volume the chance of something happening increases. That's when you want to make sure to be in good standing. If you have poor standing or even if they just don't favor you the rules can be interpreted or slooow service.
True horror stories are a chance for free education of the pitfalls. Your daily business can be stopped completely instantly without their help even if you have done nothing wrong.
 
I check on it but it wasnt worth it and talking to a friend that has one and now has a store front....hint hint. The local guy that deals will all ffl holders basical forced him to open a store or not allow him renue his liscense said his house wasnt good enough.
 


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