Difficulty getting an FFL nowadays?

I understand you might have a current FFL but I'm relaying stories that I have seen first hand. I do have many more about "my friend who owned a gun shop".
 
I had an FFL several years ago and the rules changed and made it not worth it.They made it where you had to send in a picture of your store front. Have set hours but what stopped me was they will check your zoning which if you was working out of your home by appointment put a stop to it.
 
Initial license is $200 for 3 years. Renewal is $90 for 3 years. Hardly too expensive. These FFL horror stories do make the circuit. Let me tell you if Walmart, Sportsmans Warehouse, Academy, Cabelas, and any other chain that sells guns (with the numbnuts that sell them) can stay out of trouble, so can the small home based dealer.

The ATF is not sweeping down and arresting you in the middle of the night. Nor doing inspections without notice. They do have the right (since you sign it away) to inspect the premises during business hours. Or by calling and making an appointment. They also can access your records for legal reasons as needed. They do not care if you have a storefront, or a separate entrance. They do not care if you make a profit. They want you to conduct legal transfers and maintain proper paperwork, that is it. Yes you must tag any guns that are "for sale" or "not for sale" and they can be in the same safe.

The inital process will take a long time. You must maintain that you are getting the license to run a business, not create a collection. I have never met an ATF enforcement agent, just a office paperpusher that seemed to know little of guns but knew a lot about the laws about guns. He provided me with a "how to" run the paperwork and secure the weapons and inspected the area. You must provide proof that you are zoned for a business and get a business license and notify the chief law enforcement officer for your area of your license.

The gun business has gone volume discounts, so do not expect to make a large profit selling guns. I can buy guns retail usually for cheaper than I can get them wholesale off the internet. I do not have to pay transfer fees or tax. I ordered a Stevens 200 from a wholesaler and with shipping and handling it cost me $260. Last time I was in Sportsmans Warehouse they were selling for $260 plus tax. Hardly a profitable venture...
 
That surprises me that you have never met an ATF agent. I have met 8 and 2 federal prosecutors and the head of the FBI firearm and ballistics testing among scores of law enforcement while helping out at the gun store. I have a BATF card from a Special Agent we met that has come over to the house a couple times. Very nice guy with some good stories.
Part of the reason is this gun store was alternating #1 & #2 in the state so the volume got attention. When you sell 100-500 guns a week it draws attention. The ATF came by often to check the books.
WalMart did loose the license in California for failure to do the paper work correctly.
We met one of those paper pusher FBI agents but on a different matter, a bad check, they had a string of them from the same guy.

One thing I have forgotten to mention is recognizing a straw purchase. Something that we had to prevent. Recently at Sportsmans Warehouse we saw a straw purchase and the employees had no idea that it was happening.
 
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Tripod3, most of your comments are totally wrong. Paper records (4473's) are only required to be kept 20 years (may seem like forever) but every so often, I have a burning party and properly dispose of all 4473's over 20 years old. According to BATF, when going out of business only the "Bound Book" is sent to a special address and it can be sent by any carrier (USPS or UPS, or whatever, can even be taken in personally.) Cost of a license is, as mentioned above, initially $200 for three years and after that $90 for 3 years (wait gotta look it up, may be for 4 years.)

As for dealer ordering a gun and buyer getting denied, the gun belongs to dealer and does not have to be destroyed, he can resell it. Money paid is between the guy who ordered it and the seller. There is nothing to require dealer to distroy gun unless it is declared "contraband" by the BATF (only contraband guns I have ever seen have been Title II and improperly regestered or built without tax payment). They do not charge for you to turn a gun over to them even if you or they wish it to be destroyed.

If FBI passes a NICS check on someone, they cannot later call and deny it. It is a done deal. If they make a mistake, you should assist in them recovering the firearm if you have delivered it and had customer sign the 4473. FBI cannot come into store or call and demand a records check without a court order, they CAN ask and you should help, but only BATF can require you to allow them to inspect records.

I have been an FFL for over 40 years and also Class III stamp holder.
 
20 years does seem like forever and he will most likely be dead by then. I was present for most of the record transfer deal.
I also stated the gun purchase was an FFL transfer. The buyer paid the seller and had it shipped to the store. So you did not read it correctly. So the store owner has a gun he can't deliver and does not legally own it. The solution per the BATF was field destroy which he had to pay a fee. this also avoided any legal repercussion.
I was also present when the call came in about the mistaken approval as the guy was there to pick it up, so you are saying he should have just given it to him then later find out what to do.
And then what about the approval federally then a denial by the local PD. Apparently the locals were aware of something very recent. By your statement then you just give it to them.
I clearly think you are wrong, these are some of the questionable situations that cause interpretation and often problems.
 
Tha, I just looked at the ATF site and it states:

If the licensee receives a "denied" response at any time before the transfer of the firearm, he or she may not transfer the firearm. [18 U.S.C.922(d)]

I suggest you do some reading before you give out firearms in violation of the law and try to assist in the recovery from who knows. I would sure hate to be responsible for violating the rules that are pretty common sense.

I do sometimes talk in general terms but don't cut somebody with clear intentions of violating the law.
Also not everyone can open up shop in their home. Local laws or regs may prohibit it. For example our neighbor wanted to open a office supply business. After all the public process he can have the business but shall not have any parcel or commercial delivery, it must be done off site. He shall not have more than three extra cars on site. No visible signs of business allowed. Along with a few more stipulations.
 
Yes it is true we have only been visited once by ATF. However, we speak frequently on the phone, fax, and e-mail. Our location is a bit out of the way and for the first 20+ years of operation were only a smith. Now we must have a type 1 and 6 rather than the previous smith license.
 
I have had an FFL for years, however the one I hold which is easy to get is called an FFL collector of curios relics
The curios & relics list is very large & a lot of firearms are added to the list all the time. My license was just renued for another Three years for $30,you might want to check it out. I use to hold a regular FFL till the restrictions required a place of business with all the city business license, state sales tax, etc. not worth the hassel for me, however, I am still able to buy all the firearms I want with my license, except for new firearms which I pay to have shipped to a FFL dealer for $15, hope this helps.
 
Steve it use to save money if you bought high priced guns. I bought a browning skeet gun for $300.00 less than I could find it in a gun shop. Same with ammo you could by it for the same price the gun shops were getting it for. So basically you saved the mark up, and companies would have specials and send you flyer's saving you even more if it was something you could use. The saving use to far save more than the cost of the ffl license.
 
I forgot to address the "destroyed" weapon. If someone buys and has a gun shipped to the FFL and can not take possession of the gun because of the background check, that gun does not have to be destroyed. It merely is in the FFL's inventory. The original buyer can resell the gun and have the FFL send it to another FFL or if sold locally it "should" be transferred with a bill of sale from the original buyer to the new buyer. This borders on a "straw" purchase if you don't know the parties. Or, the dealer can buy the gun from the original buyer, most likely at a discounted rate. The gun is only owned by the FFL when they buy it. If the FBI decides that it has wrongly approved a gun transfer, the FBI will be visiting the buyer. The only visit the FFL may receive is for a copy of the 4473 for evidence.

Tripod, I am not surprised that you have had a lot of scrutiny up there in WA after the DC sniper shootings at a high volume store. While you are "helping" out at the store, it in no way means you have a FFL and are not privy to the rules of the game, despite your insistence.
 
Dogtired you are correct about the Dc sniper scrutiny,
However your implication that I said anything near swat storming in to make checks is also out of line. I simply stated the ATF drops in unannounced which I have seen first hand. This just means you need to keep things up to snuff.
Whether I have an FFl or not does not mean that I was not present for these actions. For you to quote the only way it will go down is naive Or?
If we all knew how everything was going to work out we may not need lawyers or law enforcement.
Even the ATF came up with two different decisions on the same exact issues 200 miles apart. Despite the law.
The same goes for hardlining with the FBI or ATF on checks or searches. Yes they may be required to have a warrant for some things but unless you have something to hide or you have a specific legal reason then the open door pays dividends.
When my friend first opened he started selling so many guns the ATF was in there all the time extremely suspicious. As time wore on they eased up because he followed every letter and caution. Before long lawyers, prosecuters and judges were buying. So the way things got handled were on the best legal advice and cooperation available.
The most interesting thing is he started the store just to keep busy since he and his wife were previously retired comfortably.
If it hadn't been for all the paper work he would have stayed open.
 


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