Disappointed with the .17 HMR

After using the .17 hmr on racoons and having to use follow up shots on about half, where as the 22 mag is 95% on one shot kills and 22lr about 75% I just can't see the gun as much more then a rodent gun. Of course, I haven't messed with the 20 gr. XTP's much so they may be better.
 
It's about perfect for our grey fox here in southern Az. I called two last weekend, using my 19 Calhoon....and that, was to big, blew fair sized holes on the exit. I like the 17HMR for fox. Took my buddy out last week in the evening, he just restocked a Rem 597 in 17HMR with a sharo thumbhole stock, adn wanted to try it on coyotes. We called two stands,and he killed a coyote at each one. First one was perfect broadside at the 40 yard mark, did the typical death sprint for 30 yards, and tipped over. The other was as slightly quartering away shot, clipped it at about the third rear rib, angled back, punched liver,and exited! That one, typical of a liver hit coyote, ran a bit farther, but not much, maybe 50 yards, and was dead in a heap. All very typical of the 20 odd coyotes Ive shot with my HMR, when I take it out on occasion. It's not meant for coyotes, but with a good shot to the lungs, they die just like they do with my 17 Rem or 19 Hornet, just takes them a few more steps to expire:)
 
My experiences are the same as Chile's.
Call the coyote to 60 yards or less and make a good shot. I have no trouble with reds or greys either at this range.

Randy
 
If the 17 don't hit a mass like bone or something tough it won't do its job. learned that Squrrel hunting. Shot one in the neck,Sure it died but 5 minuts later in a fork in the top of the Tree.....Jeff
 
I totally agree with your critical shot placement comments and trust me my intentions are to do that everytime. You guys hunt and know it doesn't happen everytime. I don't like injuring animals no more than hopefully most of you, but my original points were not taken by everyone. Use enough gun given the situation to make a humane kill and there are many posts about about noise and urban hunting. Like I said whats better or should I say less disturbing, one moderate sound with a kill or several repeated less than moderate sounds with nothing to show.
 
Hi Graig,
In reply to your question I would say repeated shots and lost animals are worst at night with in sound distance of residence. But one boom with a 22-250 type is not great either, but slightly better. Several repeated rounds with a boomer may entice a 911 call. Something in-between may be best. It is still at night and some like my wife jump up at the drop of a pin saying "who's there !" (which provides much fun and family laughs for myself in a jokester warped mind set now and then .......grin). I can sleep through fire engine sirens, heavy thunder storms etc. But will awake at the crack of gun shot and try and judge distance, situation that caused it etc. I suppose it's a protector reaction

. I think most would agree that shot placement at night is more difficult also.

As to the hummer, I sold mine. With perfect shot placement it lacked kill power/mixed results on woodchuck (same size as fox BTW)size game at 100-150 yards, no run, death crawl. In that range the kill power did not match it's fine accuracy for a rim fire nor it's flat shooting to 150 yard ability. Keep in mind I prefer to smoke the varmints, not hunting fur as in fox.

Between 50 and 100 yards however I would not hesitate to shoot Fox size game with a hummer 17 grain B-Tips or 20 grain HP. Shot placement with the hummer from a sitting or prone position should be easy on a still target at that range. A fox shot in the vidals at that range will likely drop and at most death crawl a few feet and not run. At 100-150 yards Woodchucks did not "run" when sniped(shot placement). I just did not like the death crawl for non fur game. Based on my experiance shooting woodchucks which weight the same as fox. A fox shot in the vidals at 50 - 100 yards is not going no where when on the receiving end of a .17hmr and a shooter familar with it. Just should not happen if the shot is where it should be, which it can be with the hummer at that range. Every rifle if accurate has a game size and kill range IMO, if the hunter is responcable and practices at the range before with the rifle before hunting with it and to keep sharp latter. Want to see my groups get smaller with out spending big money or trying new loads from both bench and free hand ? Easy........watch me go shoot for a hour every day for a week. I use to shoot rimfire 4 position on a team during winter many, many moons ago. Practice 3 evenings a week, match once per week with the same rifle. During shooting season I hit the rod and gun clubs 100,200 & 300 yard range at least weekly with 20 - 50 rounds.

Getting off subject .......sorry. And I am sure you shoot regular, as I hope most do on here. I am just amazed sometimes how many hunters don't practice and how many take to field a rifle that has sat un-fired for months before going to the range. I could not pick up someone else's scoped rifle and shoot it accurately enough for me, and take it hunting with out going to the range first. I can not pull my sighted factory 22-250 from the closet after months of non-fire, brush off my trigger fingure, and shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards off bags which the rifle will do. I would likely shoot 1"(double....100 % increase) my first 5 and that is off bags and bench shooting when I am good and ready. What size groups does that transfer to in the field, uneven ground, range judgement question, 1 shot cold barrel, shoot when game presents shot for placement rather than when good and ready to squeeze trigger with breathing, low light, etc. ........? Hmmm ? I will tell you what size.........to big for kills on varmint and predator size game thats how big.

The preferred varmint/predator factory rifle shoots 1/2" 5 shot groups at 100 yards from bench, with practice, on a good day. 3/4" is more likely. 1" is acceptable. Below 1/2" is very rare with factory and your darn sure going to have a front rest and solid bench. Above 1" not acceptable, in my oppinion for varmints and predators field use..........period. That is off a decent bench with at least good bags if not a front rest and knowing rifle, practice,etc. Now take that out to the field for hunting on small varmint & predator game. One shot cold barrel, longer than 100 yard range, and all the above etc., etc. Now factor in if you have not shot the rifle much, not familar nor have a good feel for it. Or, you are familar but have not shot, practiced in months. Now, what is your group size or better yet, one shot cold barrel, going to be in the field hunting situation at 100 ? 200 ? 300 on small varmints and predators ? Answer .....IMO, to big, out of the kill zone, maybe a 300 % increase etc. Which equals wounded animals. The archery hunter will practice several times a week before season and in season to assure hitting the kill zone with one shot in field. Yet, many rifle hunters who hunt smaller game such as varmints and predators, knowing the power and accuracy of the rifle over estimate the size of the target they must hit in the field with varmints and predators in field conditions. A 3" diameter varmint / predator target is 75 % smaller than a 12" diameter Deer, big game target.

We all make physical mistakes in the field. It is a mental mistake not to practice shooting before and during hunting varmints & predators. If one wants clean kills or in reality less clean miss'es.

Sorry to go on. I do beleive most all on here are aware of this. Those new to varmint & predator shooting need to be made aware of it. Just venting, in regards to the type, hunter that shows up at my local range before season, fires 10 shots into a paper plate at 100 yards, says good enough, and leaves. With practice most 17 hummers shoot aprox. 3/4" - 1" average 5 shot groups at 100 from bench. Again average not counting the 1 in 20 dime sized group. You can double that in the field hunting for 1 shot kill and double it again to 3" at 100 for field no practice type hunter which puts you at the edge of the 3" diameter clean kill range at 100 yards for no practice with rifle and a field hunting situation as compared to bench. So then you have 3 of 5 shots/60% inside 3"(kill zone) and 2 marginal at 100 in field hunting situations from a non-practice hunter(worst case) with a sub-caliber round. And that's at 100 yards. The practiced rifle shooter , in field hunting situation, would likely shoot near(animals move when you don't want them to) 100 percent into a 3" diameter circle or kill zone. A hunter who does not or is not willing to practice regularly should IMO always go up in caliber for hunting. Then take that out to 200 and 300 yards for 3" quick kill zone on varmints and predators with a flat centerfire . Double what you average with regular practice from the bench for field situations and 1 shot cold barrel,etc. What percent of 5 shots does that put you in at 300 yards, 3" diameter quick kill in the field say on coyote size game ? My better groups at 300 from caldwell bags and bench, 22-250 Tikka T3 varmint factory rifle , 20 power scope and regular practice are about 2 3/8"(I don't have a custom 6 mm br, oz. trigger, shoot br,$500.00 front rest, and average sub 1" at 300......sorry). Double that for hunting field conditions.......... 4 3/4" . At least 2 of 5 shots may be out of the zone. Now, question on caliber for hunting situations. Do you have enough caliber so that even with practice the 40 % that are outside of 3" at 300 yards will drop them ? Willing not to take the shot at the stading broaside coyote ? Or are you willing to start tracking, picking up the trail from 300 yards away if it's one of the 40% hits and your a bit light on caliber choice or don't practice enough ?

Food for thought. Again just my personal oppinion,.........ramblings. I find it interesting thought. Not directed at anyone so please don't take it wrong.
 
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I'm not inpressed with the.17 HMR either. A friend took one out on Prairie Dogs with me 2 years ago. The hits were ok, but very annemic. Most of the Dogs required a second shot. I'll stick with my 22.250 or .223 for now. Heck, with in reason, even a .22 would be a good option, especially when not losing fur is the issue. I took a Coyote at 115 yds with a .22 long rifle, (lucky shot). Only had one hole in the spine. You can see my Browning .22 in the pic with the dog I shot.
 
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In GA you can legally only use small game firearms(rimfire .22 or smaller or shotgun #2 shot or smaller) for hunting fox and bobcat. I'd take the accuracy of the .17 HMR over the rest if my shots would be 50 to 120yds. #2 hevi-shot if less than 50 yds. GAJoe
 
That's how you get them ready for the butcher! Haven't you ever killed a beef in your back yard?

You don't want to shoot Bessie in the back yard with a 300 WM. ruins too much meat, and [beeep] off the neighbors.
 
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