Do You Ladder Test?
- Thread starter mtngroan
- Start date
Dan, I believe you are correct. I asked on a another forum if 300 was the min and they kept saying 200 is ok. I tend to think you are correct that longer is better to allow for more vertical dispersion.
I am beiginning to wonder because now a lot of people state the Ladder is a bogus way of working up a load. Who knows. I am not experienced enough yet to know one way or the other.
I may try at longer ranges and see what happens.
I am beiginning to wonder because now a lot of people state the Ladder is a bogus way of working up a load. Who knows. I am not experienced enough yet to know one way or the other.
I may try at longer ranges and see what happens.
MO1
New member
Originally Posted By: dan brothersI believe you need to shoot 3 rounds of each load... and shoot at least 300 yds... because if I understand the ladder test... your looking for around 3 good groups that are similar... and then you choose the middle load of those three groups.
I think that's right..haven't tried it myself... but I don't think you can tell anything with only one shot per load.
Maybe somebody will chime in with better understanding A ladder test doesn't by itself find you a finished load. It just shows you where your particular barrel is likely to be most forgiving and accurate. You only load 1 round of each powder charge, and it's important to shoot on a calm day at a distance great enough to magnify the results - I like to do it at 400 yards.
A ladder test will simply show you at what powder charge zone(s) your barrel's harmonics is best - most barrels have 2 nodes where they shoot particular bullets best. Think of it as a test to show you at what load range you can be off in your powder dump by .2 or .4 grains with no change in impact downrange. You're looking for clustering in your test results - like 24.2, 24,4 and 24.6 grain loads landing very close together,where loads north and south of that range show vertical stringing. You're trying to find where you can be off .2 or .4 grains in your powder measurement and have virtually no vertical stringing.
Once you have that data you can load up 3 shots for groups within that powder range and see what your gun shoots best for groups. Then you can tweak COAL and fine tune your load.
I think that's right..haven't tried it myself... but I don't think you can tell anything with only one shot per load.
Maybe somebody will chime in with better understanding A ladder test doesn't by itself find you a finished load. It just shows you where your particular barrel is likely to be most forgiving and accurate. You only load 1 round of each powder charge, and it's important to shoot on a calm day at a distance great enough to magnify the results - I like to do it at 400 yards.
A ladder test will simply show you at what powder charge zone(s) your barrel's harmonics is best - most barrels have 2 nodes where they shoot particular bullets best. Think of it as a test to show you at what load range you can be off in your powder dump by .2 or .4 grains with no change in impact downrange. You're looking for clustering in your test results - like 24.2, 24,4 and 24.6 grain loads landing very close together,where loads north and south of that range show vertical stringing. You're trying to find where you can be off .2 or .4 grains in your powder measurement and have virtually no vertical stringing.
Once you have that data you can load up 3 shots for groups within that powder range and see what your gun shoots best for groups. Then you can tweak COAL and fine tune your load.
MO1
New member
Originally Posted By: dpollardI did my first ladder test today. I am not sure what my group tells me. I would appreciate any feedback on how to interpret my results. Here is the recipe I used:
Savage Model 12 22-250
Powder: Varget
Primer: WLR
Brass: Remington
Bullet: .224 Midsouth Varmint Nightmare (w/canellure) 55gr.
According to Lyman manual min load is 34 and max is 37.
I loaded up 11 rounds at .3 grain increments starting at min and going up to max.
This was shot at 200 yards, calm conditions, 48 degrees.
Its seems very random to me.
These results don't show much, because the .3 grain increment is too high and the distance you shot at was too short. I never start at the min load because under no circumstances am I going to settle for less than a mid-range load velocity. In my opinion you're much better to start about 1/3 of the way up from min, then load to max in .1 grain increments - this will usually result in 10 to 14 rounds loaded. (actually, I load to a few grains over max and just keep an eye out for pressure signs and stop when I see any - often you'll be able to go over the max published with your gun safely, and in some cases you can't safely shoot a max load with your gun)
If there's even the slightest breeze read the wind and time your shots to be when it's absolutely calm. Your data will be better and you'll learn a lot about your barrel's harmonics and at what velocity(s) your barrel will be most forgiving for that particular bullet.
Savage Model 12 22-250
Powder: Varget
Primer: WLR
Brass: Remington
Bullet: .224 Midsouth Varmint Nightmare (w/canellure) 55gr.
According to Lyman manual min load is 34 and max is 37.
I loaded up 11 rounds at .3 grain increments starting at min and going up to max.
This was shot at 200 yards, calm conditions, 48 degrees.
Its seems very random to me.
If there's even the slightest breeze read the wind and time your shots to be when it's absolutely calm. Your data will be better and you'll learn a lot about your barrel's harmonics and at what velocity(s) your barrel will be most forgiving for that particular bullet.
dan brothers
New member
the OCW sounds like a better way
rwcathunter
New member
i thought i'd throw in my 2 cents on this one. i have fired many ladder tests over the years. when done properly a ladder test will show you 2 or 3 different nodes on which a load can be developed. all you want to look at as far as results is the vertical dispersion. tests should be fired from 500+ yards to more easily see the vertical. firing from 300 yards or less will not show you much. wind doesn't matter unless it's really blowing hard 30mph+. don't forget to number each shot before the next shot is fired.
reading the results is the easy part. first, ignore the horizontal. just focus on the vertical here. take your target and circle the shot groups with say a 2 inch vertical in common. this will identify 2 or three nodes to work on. from here i always load from the middle charge in a node. this way if you load .1 +- it wont matter, your vertical will still be gtg. now all you have to do is play with the seating depth in each node to find the best overall accuracy. if i find one node that has amazing vertical, [a 1/2 inch @500 yards] i will just stick in that node with my seating depth test.
it normally only takes two range sessions for me to work up a load. day 1, ladder test. day 2, 3-5 shot groups varying the seating depth. that's how i do it. hope it helps.
reading the results is the easy part. first, ignore the horizontal. just focus on the vertical here. take your target and circle the shot groups with say a 2 inch vertical in common. this will identify 2 or three nodes to work on. from here i always load from the middle charge in a node. this way if you load .1 +- it wont matter, your vertical will still be gtg. now all you have to do is play with the seating depth in each node to find the best overall accuracy. if i find one node that has amazing vertical, [a 1/2 inch @500 yards] i will just stick in that node with my seating depth test.
it normally only takes two range sessions for me to work up a load. day 1, ladder test. day 2, 3-5 shot groups varying the seating depth. that's how i do it. hope it helps.
Last edited:
dan brothers
New member
RW... that is how I understand the process as well. At 500 yds...you must have a SOLID REST... and a HIGH POWER SCOPE... is that right...? What kind of setup do you use...
rwcathunter
New member
the scope magnification doesn't matter as much as a good steady rest. if you don't have a high power scope you can always use a bigger or smaller target that works with your reticle. any $30 dollar caldwell or similar rest should do the job. take your time, squeeze easy and the results will come.
my set-ups vary from standard varmint rigs to full custom match rigs. the varmint rigs are savages with weaver 2.5x10 classic extremes. my f-class rifles are savage,lawton, and barnard actions and all sport nightforce 12x42 scopes with npdd reticles.
for a rest, on match days i use a farley coaxial front rest. but often time during load development i just use a cheapo caldwell i've had for many years. a bipod is fine too. any old rabbit ear rear bag will work.
my set-ups vary from standard varmint rigs to full custom match rigs. the varmint rigs are savages with weaver 2.5x10 classic extremes. my f-class rifles are savage,lawton, and barnard actions and all sport nightforce 12x42 scopes with npdd reticles.
for a rest, on match days i use a farley coaxial front rest. but often time during load development i just use a cheapo caldwell i've had for many years. a bipod is fine too. any old rabbit ear rear bag will work.
