East Tennessee mountain lion tracks(pictures)

High_Sierra

High_Sierra

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track.jpg


This is one shot, I apologize for the quality but I took these on my phone and haven't found a way to post them on here so i took pics of the pics with my digital camera. I found these during deer season. Stopped my Rancher to investigate an area for coyote tracks. No yote tracks but a long set of tracks from a big ol kitty. I will not disclose an exact location but it was near Royal Blue WMA. And I'm 6'3" and 215lbs, I dont have the smallest hands in the world. And that is my hand flat on the ground.
 
Well, as a native Tennessean that has hunted all over east TN for most of my 52 years, I can tell you without a doubt that I have never seen hide, hair, or tracks of one of those critters. Does that mean they don't exist? Nope. But "if" they were here, and in any appreciable numbers, they would have made their presence known by documented sightings and other forms of proof.

There is another member on here that had posted a while back that he actually SAW two cats in Royal Blue. Haven't heard anything else about it, though.

Before you get your panties in a wad, don't think that I am doubting your photos or intelligence. The odds that there might be 1 or 2 of those cats in that area are not out of the question. But as far as them making a go of it, or there being a breeding and escalating population in this part of the state, I would have to say that personally, I doubt it.

"If" I were to put in a dedicated search for a cat in this part of the state, it would definitely have to be in the areas of Royal Blue, Catoosa, Coalcreek, or even more likely the Winchester or Cowan areas of Franklin county. There was a TON of acreage outside of Cowan that used to be owned by Clyde Carter, that has now (as I understand it) been divided up amongst his heirs. It was the wildest, most remote area that I have ever seen in this part of the country. Thousands of acres that went, for the most part, untouched by humans except during deer season.

Anyway, thanks for the pics. Go see if you can find that critter and make believers out of all us Doubting-Thomases. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

BTW: I have a good friend in Lafolette. Mac Crumley @ NorrisCraft Boats. I've visited and bought several boats from him over the years.

Nice to see another TN guy on the forums. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I've gone back a few times to try and find more sign and do the usual scouting. My cousin claimed to have saw one from a distance in his tree stand last season. I have been told by a few of the TWRA officers that they have been told of sightings and are aware of a small existance of the cats but TN still dont wanna talk about it or try to investigate into its population. I noticed USFW was talking of doing a study of eastern cougars to determine populations.
 
Here is a pic of a track in that general area in TN. That is a 20 ounce bottle


Here is a pic of one on the AL TN line about 60 miles west of Chattanooga TN. This pic is a frame grab and was took about a mile from where I called one in at.I reported it to the Game and fish with the GPS coordinates and they contacted me 3 times. I was told there was a reason they put in the game regs no hunting of mountain lions In AL. Dont know about TN but since I could see the TN line from where I was hunting I assume they are there too.
 
All the people I know that are *huge* doubters are people who assume there is a Tennessee mountain lion border patrol and they have to have greencards or something. This one guy at work argued the pics on my phone and brought in a paper that mentioned about how they where once widely distributed in the western hemisphere(keyword) and after i tried to explain basic geography i was told that the western hemisphere was ONLY the western United States and how they couldnt live in mountains around here due to climate and some other bull. I asked him why aren't they called desert lions to which there was and still is no reply.
 
Sounds like the Game Officials in TN are probably reading from the same book as the ones in MO.... While not total denial (too much physical evidence), but really played down...
 
Quote:
Here is a pic of a track in that general area in TN

Here is a pic of one on the AL TN line about 60 miles west of Chattanooga TN



I am assuming that you are talking about the old Carter property in Franklin county, and near Stevenson, AL? Or possibly Skyline?

I've hunted those areas a bunch over the years. Those areas are so uninhabited, it wouldn't surprise me if an elephant sighting was reported there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Quote:
near Stevenson, AL? Or possibly Skyline?



You are correct Hidalgo Skyline right on the AL TN line one ridge is AL and the other is TN. I wouldn't be surprised to see an elephant there either. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
liontrack.jpg

Front paw >
catfeatures1.gif

Back Paw >
catfeatures2.gif



Vs

track2.jpg


The outside toes look a little high on your pic compared to all the pics i have seen of Cougar tracks (google images search/ mountain lion tracks)/ the outside toe on your pic is close to the same hieght as the middle toe, however on all the other cougar prints there is almost a whole toes length difference between the outside toe and the middle. Also the front toes of a cougar don't line up normally. These are just my observations, and i am not an expert, i am sure other people with more knowledge will be able to help confirm the track. If you had pics of the stride and other front and back paw prints it would help. is that snow? or something else? if you follow cat tracks long enough eventually you find scat or fur or a Cat, these would help prove the existance of cougars in tenn.


Maybe post that print over at the houndsman forum and see what they think.

Good luck and thanks for the pic.



http://www.bear-tracker.com/caninevsfeline.html
 
it was in some mud. everyone here keeps claiming bear unless i show them some bear track pictures. I tried to get some further away at the time to show the stride(pretty long) but it didn't show up enough to tell.
 
Let's play a game of pretend.

Let's say a TWRA official said that they did realize there was a small, possibly sustainable population of Mtn. Lions in Tennessee.
What if in that coversation he said that if it was ackowledged publicly by the state, then a lot of things would have to happen.
They would have to set them up as an endangered species, spend a lot of funds to study and protect them, hire more biologists to study the population and try to get a fairly accurate estimate on just how many existed.
Now that we have played out that hypothetical situation.
What if they felt like that the funds that they would have to spend to do this project and be in compliance with the U.S. Government on endangered species would be better spent on increasing the deer and turkey.
Sometimes, out of site out of mind works best when it comes to money. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Quote:
Let's play a game of pretend.




Well!.......that was cute. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Now lets talk about REALITY. I am great friends with 2 of our State biologists. They are great guys. They take their jobs seriously. They EAT, SLEEP, and LOVE the outdoors and ANY animal that they can observe gets their attention. I have discussed the "possibility" of these cats living in our state. Both of these officers agreed that they have actually seen first-hand evidence of cougars in Tennessee. They haven't actually made any sightings, but have found tracks and other sign that they both have identified. However, both of them agree that these animals are most likely pets that have been released, not cats that have migrated here, and definitely not cats that are decendents of an old regional population.

As for the possibility of TWRA ignoring this or "sweeping it under the rug", well that just isn't the case. These guys both agreed that whenever they get a call suggesting the presence of a cat they get very excited. Like I said, these fellows are biologists, and not regular game officers. It's not just their job, it's their hobby. I can assure you that if either one makes a definite identification of a cougar in the state, the information will be released immediately. Thinking that the TWRA would look at this in a financial light is absurd. You need to talk first-hand to some of the officers in our state...you'll see that this ISN'T their outlook on the subject. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Hidalgo,
Everything I said up top was put into a game scenario for a reason. They had hard evidence just a few years ago, unfortunately it was of the dead kind.
The story I relayed to you is what a warden had told me just this year. I'll pm you and give you my phone number and maybe we can discuss this. I try to talk to the TWRA pretty regular myself and have been friends for 24 years with one of the presidents of NWTF.

PM sent............give me a call.
 
That's a bear track. Big rear pad. Toes almost straight across. Cat track has trianguler rear pad with toes in a curve around it. I do belive there are big cats in the East, but that track isn't from one.
 
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Quote:
That's a bear track. Big rear pad. Toes almost straight across. Cat track has trianguler rear pad with toes in a curve around it.



I agree. Sorry Sierra.....looks like a bear to me, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

CCP's pics however are definitely not a bear. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
High Sierra, just kind of a side note, I've drove trucks all over the country and seen a lot of black bears. The biggest one I EVER saw ran across I-75 in front of me at the 145 mm just on top of Jelico Mtn from you.
 
If it was running, the back print will show about the same size as the front. They don't run on their heels. That will also account for the longer stride.
 
Since Missouri was mentioned, as an aside to Bopeye's scenario, the Missouri Conservation Department has acknowledged the presence of Mountain Lions in the this state. There are many documented and verified video's, sightings, tracks, and kills. Even some road killed lions in recent history. Of interest to me is two sightings of which come from the immediate area I deer hunt. A video filmed by a Conservation Agent a couple of years ago of a lion on a deer kill was taken about 1 mile from my normal yearly deer hunting area. Last year a hunter in this same general area shot a deer right at dark and wasn't able to recover it. The next morning he and another hunter went back and tracked the deer up to find with much surprise a lion had claimed the kill. They backed off and called a Conservation Agent and he went back with them. The lion was still on the kill and they got some video before the cat took off. They figured out from the sign that the cat had jumped the still alive and wounded deer, finished the kill, and claimed it. There are many more verified sightings, but those two are of particular interest to me since they occured right in my stomping grounds. A policy was set which seems that any state could adapt if they wished.

MDC officials declared there is a scattered Mountain Lion presence in Missouri. They believe this presence is mostly from juvenile and young adult lions seeking their own territory as they expand from the western states. The MDC will readily admit the entire southern half of the state is great big cat country. Mile upon mile of heavy timbered forest, brushy creeks, valley fields, lots of rugged remote country with a good deer and turkey population. A cat could travel from mid-Missouri south through northern Arkansas with little, or no, interaction with humans. There was much discussion of Mountain Lions in the last few years. Finally an official statement that even though the big cats were once native Missouri animals, there would be no modern management to reintroduce, or sustain/maintain, a population of Mountain Lions in Missouri. The idea is that the lions would not be a desirable species to have in numbers within the state. Lion, livestock, and human interaction would only cause problems for all if the population were to grow to a substantial number. So in effect, we have them, but we are not TRYING to have them or making an effort to maintain the lion population. There is no legal hunting of lions in Missouri, though it is known that at least one was illegally shot by coon hunters whose dogs treed a lion. They tried to get the hide tanned by a local taxidermist and all were fined heavily and lost hunting priveledges and some gear used in the poaching for their shifty ways. Basically MDC has adopted a hands off policy on lions. If they make it and become problematic, I guess Missouri will deal with that as the situation dictates. If they never really establish a stable population, that's probably better yet. That seems a reasonable approach to a large predator like the lion for a state like Missouri.

The state is managing the Black Bear and Feral Hog populations. No hunting of bears, much study being done, and when bears get in trouble MDC will attempt to trap and relocate problem bears. MDC has had to do so at least a dozen times, and also to kill one problem bear that would not stay relocated and out of trouble. Another has been killed by a homeowner when it attacked his dog. The homeowner was not charged in the incident and the 350 pound bear was confiscated by MDC. Another bear was illegally killed by an out of state turkey hunter who clamied he was attacked by the bear. He later admitted to shooting the bear because it was looting his camp. He was fined and lost hunting priveledges and his firearm he used to illegally kill the bear. We have a decent bear population that is growing. The bear population is described as maybe being as large as 900 animals. The wild hog population estimates vary from 3,000 to as many as 10,000. The goal for hogs is to eradicate them if possible, though nobody believes this is possible in the Ozarks. Basically it is open season on pigs.
 


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