East Tennessee mountain lion tracks(pictures)

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near Stevenson, AL? Or possibly Skyline?



You are correct Hidalgo Skyline right on the AL TN line one ridge is AL and the other is TN. I wouldn't be surprised to see an elephant there either. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif



Well let's go elephant hunting there Rich and maybe we can get a mountain lion, that doesn't exist by the way, on camera. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
If biologists hired by the state don't believe they exist, then you know that just has to be the facts.

Give me a ring Rich......you got my number. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
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If biologists hired by the state don't believe they exist, then you know that just has to be the facts.




Have you personally talked to one of our TWRA biologists that don't believe they exist? I have talked to 2 that know & admit there is evidence of their existence, however small it may be.

Care to elaborate on your statment? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
This all kinda reminds me of the FL. panther when I lived there. At first they said they did not exist.Then after one was killed by a car they were labeled as a pet that got loose.Then after several were killed on the highways they were labeled as decedents from runaway pets. After much study and DNA testing it was concluded the FL.panther was never extinct just eluded people for 60 + years. Now there numbers are high enough its not a debate anymore but a fact. I was fortunate to be able to see one while I lived there. Jumped it while bush hogging some terraces around 1986.

The one i called in when I first moved to north AL was with a kitten in distress. It was as close as 40 yards and I watched it for around 5 to 10 or so minutes. It was a small lion around 60 pounds in the early fall before leaves fell.It was obvious to me it was that years offspring.

I think this is why they continued to call me several times because it was a yearling and wanted to make positive I wasn't looking at a big bobcat.

I was told pretty much what Bobeye said.If a population of MT lions are recognized as anything other than escaped pets they would have to setup programs for them since MT lions once inhabited North AL. If they had never been in AL before they would be considered exotics and would not be protected.

After several of these long conversations and talking about the FL panther with them I was told there is a reason they are in the hunting regs to not kill them. He said and I quote "If MT lions in AL were really escaped pets they would not be protected they would be considered in the same category as wild hogs and have no closed season on private property. Farther more we would encourage the Eradication of such an exotic animal because it would and could have an impact on the wildlife in AL"
 
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Care to elaborate on your statment? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif



Care to call me like I asked you to do? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif I pm'd you my number this morning.
I like discussing these kinds of things where you can here the persons voice so the intent of the message is better understood. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Been coming to these boards for several years now and subjects like this can be blown clear out of hand due to the inability of the written word to express it properly.
 
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Care to call me like I asked you to do? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif I pm'd you my number this morning.
I like discussing these kinds of things where you can here the persons voice so the intent of the message is better understood. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



I don't know what the problem might be? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Jeesh....we're just discussing the probability of a species living in our area. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Personally, I don't have a problem voicing my opinions out in the open. They aren't worth anything anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif And if I have something to say that I don't want to be heard....well maybe I shouldn't say it in the first place? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

This ain't "Mission Impossible" where we gotta destroy the evidence when we get done. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Honestly, do you think TWRA (or anyone else) cares what we say in reference to this issue?

What's to descern about the "intent of the message"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Dude...you been watching WAY too much television. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
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I was told pretty much what Bobeye said.If a population of MT lions are recognized as anything other than escaped pets they would have to setup programs for them since MT lions once inhabited North AL. If they had never been in AL before they would be considered exotics and would not be protected.



Why couldn't Alabama or Tennessee do as Missouri did and just recognize them as a species no longer suited to the state, and conditions as they exist now, not 200 years ago when the lion roamed in the east in greater numbers? In this case I think MDC got it right.

In the case of Elk, I think they dropped the ball. Missouri did the same thing with elk just a few years ago. There was talk of reintroducing elk as a native species and encouraging and managing for wild populations in the more remote parts of the Ozarks. There was a lot of research done, and elk herd management in Kentucky, Arkansas, and Michigan were examined. In the long run it was deemed the elk weren't a long term reintroduction that would eventually be trouble free and self sustaining without intensive care and management from MDC biologist. It was actually feared they would flourish and spread beyond the remote areas of the Ozarks and become problematic in more populated regions. The Department of Agriculture, the Farmers Association, Stockmans Accociation, and the big Insurance interest also appled much political pressure and strongly opposed an elk reintroduction. Disease, fence damage, crop damage, competition with whitetails, and car wrecks were leading resons to oppose the elk within the state. So, even though the elk was once a native Missourian, they will not be a species found wild within the state any time soon. I actually opposed this and would love to have native wild elk in Missouri. One of the proposed release sites was exactly in my neck of the woods where I do most of my hunting. It would have been really neat to have glimpsed native, wild elk as I hunted the Ozark hills. I still hold out some hope for it, but with the big money applying politcal pressure, I doubt it'll happen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
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Care to call me like I asked you to do? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif I pm'd you my number this morning.
I like discussing these kinds of things where you can here the persons voice so the intent of the message is better understood. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



I don't know what the problem might be? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Jeesh....we're just discussing the probability of a species living in our area. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Personally, I don't have a problem voicing my opinions out in the open. They aren't worth anything anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif And if I have something to say that I don't want to be heard....well maybe I shouldn't say it in the first place? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

This ain't "Mission Impossible" where we gotta destroy the evidence when we get done. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Honestly, do you think TWRA (or anyone else) cares what we say in reference to this issue?

What's to descern about the "intent of the message"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Dude...you been watching WAY too much television. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif



Ah, nevermind. I thought since you just lived an hour from me that I would like to get to know you a little better. Who knows maybe go coyote hunting or something....but don't bother.
It ain't about "Mission Impossible" or anything of that nature. It's about not wanting to set here and write a 13 page dissertation on why the TWRA is using the hands off approach to the Mountain Lion issue.
Nevermind though dude......I can remain faceless behind this monitor too...... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I agree with you GC on them dropping the ball with this one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I still can't say bear on this one. the tracks where pretty deep in some places and it musta had a toe chopped off if a bear. i am well aware of our black bear population, i know where 2 frequent some local areas(just wish i could pop'em) and i've saw their tracks and although of similar size, not quite the same track. not tryin' to start a forum brawl but i don't think the bear tracks quite match up too close
 
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This may Explain why this discussion is taking place:: > It's a Must Read:

http://www.cougarnet.org/12-06newsletter/IndArticles/Cougar%20Hysteria.pdf

.




That is a good read Ben, but it still can't explain a few things. Maybe these cats are being released, but that still makes them here. I do know of a guy several years back that released some cats on Renegade Mountain due to the fact that he had them illegally. Whether those cats survived or not, I do not know. Were those cats shipped somewhere else maybe? I don't know, but to completely dismiss it could prove to be unwise.
I do know that an Alligator was captured in Watts Bar lake a few months ago. Was it turned loose in the lake? It had to have been, because they are not native to this area.
Did it change the fact that an Alligator was in the lake?
Not in the slightest. Would it have continued to survive in the lake? Doubtful, but who knows.

Anyone remember several years ago when a piranha was caught in one of the great lakes? How in the world did that happen?
Was it ever proved to be a hoax or not? I don't know.
I thought for sure that the water would be far too cold there.
Just some thoughts.
 
Sierra, you need to go to www.adobe.com and download "Acrobat Reader" onto your computer. It is free, and a safe application. You can then open PDF files. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Bopeye, You are correct, pets get released, i worked in the pet industry for a while. Many caiman, iguanas and other exotic pets are found all the time in places they should not be. I think the article talks about all the pets that are released.
The pirahna was caught only about 35 minutes from where i live. It was in a area that had 70 degree water year round near a water treatment or power plant i think, it did happen, but it was a released pet of course . The pirahna is a very common fresh water pet fish.
Anyway, i think most people think that they have a "small population" of Cats in their area. The article brings up a good point about areas that actually have a small populaion of cats like florida, in which they have road kill every year. Also that places like Europe that do not have any Cougars, has big Cat "sightings" all the time. It shows how the human mind is wired for these things.
Good luck.
 
I've seen a few bear tracks in the Tackett Creek area of Claiborne county right up the road from Royal Blue, and I was thinking bear track as well. There may very well be cougars in the area, as a few years ago a guy I know said they spotted one in caliborne county somewhere.
 
I don't want to get anything started here,but those are not mountain lion tracks,in my book.I have seen hundreds of bear tracks in Pa.and canada,and many cougar tracks while hunting out west.Those are bear tracks with or without a toe.I'm not saying that there isn't cougars there,but those are not ones track.Most cougar tracks i've seen were not sunk into the ground as would a bears.The size of that track (pad) and depth (judging)is a year and a half old bear.If you notice the pad is splattered outward and is actually looking bigger than what it would be on hard ground.The missing or broken toe doesn't change my mind about what made that track.Another thing you can notice,if you look closely,the toes seem to angle to the right ever so slightly in relation to the pad,that also tells me bear.
 
We have the same dilemma here in Michigan........lots of evidence but according to the DNR "they are not here", yet two years ago they updated the Regs to make it illegal to kill a Mtn. Lion..........go figure.

There are some local people that have three captive Bobcats, and I discused the "tame cat released" theory.....they laughed, a legally purchased Mtn. Lion cub runs into the thousands of dollars, and would easily fetch much more as a mature animal....don't know many people willing to dump 5-10K out in the woods. They also felt their dependence upon humans for food would quickly bring them to the nearest home looking for a hand-out...and not in an natural predator manner.
 
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We have the same dilemma here in Michigan........lots of evidence but according to the DNR "they are not here", yet two years ago they updated the Regs to make it illegal to kill a Mtn. Lion..........go figure.

There are some local people that have three captive Bobcats, and I discused the "tame cat released" theory.....they laughed, a legally purchased Mtn. Lion cub runs into the thousands of dollars, and would easily fetch much more as a mature animal....don't know many people willing to dump 5-10K out in the woods. They also felt their dependence upon humans for food would quickly bring them to the nearest home looking for a hand-out...and not in an natural predator manner.



TimberDawg, I've got to agree with your assessment of the cougar in MI. I saw one in the late '70s here in the UP. I also personally know of quite a few others that have seen them over the years. Of course if you bring up your sighting, the ridicule starts from the "outdoors wannabees" that quote assinine stories. The "released pet" theory is full of bovine excrement. It's just another way to deny the existance of the big cats here. Heck, some of these "authorities" have even worked in the pet industry, so they have all of the answers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif MI VHNTR
 
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