Eastern coyotes the same???

Hey Rich!! The theory most biologists subscribe to here in New England is that these Coywolves have always been here, and are not a new species, but an old one, poisoned to near extinction when the East was settled. Settlers called them brushwolves. We have standard looking coyotes here, and then some of these monsters.

The standards are thought to be new to this area, arriving somewhere in the 40's or 50's. In any event, I'm glad they are both here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

No matter, they are all lumped into the same category, and a 50 pound "coyote" does not raise an eyebrow in New England.

I won't bore anyone with big 'yote pics, but this one from a couple of years ago has a wolf face. He was about 46 pounds, and was very young judging from his perfect white teeth. I always thought his wolf look was undeniable.

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I've read and read on this subject.No,there not the same. If they were the same,they would all be of the same size and color,throughout the country.There very much the same when calling them and they raise and care for there young the same. One of the differences i notice,is that they like to feed on larger prey,more often than there western cousin.For this reason,i believe there must be wolf blood in the eastern coyotes. Wolves hunted large animals,like moose and caribou. I believe this trait may be why the larger coyotes of the east,like to feed on deer and wild turkeys. There size dictates there larger food intake and prey they kill. There is a difference and thats the only logical one i can think of.
 
If you shoot both species you will quickly see the differences. The big ones, whatever you want to call them are not only larger, but do indeed have a wolf look to them. Without going into alot of boring theories of mine, they do move differently, run differently, and the large ones are actually easier to call and kill. They are much more confident, and rarely "hang up".

Its an interesting puzzle /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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I always wonder when I read these threads if this is a wolf type face. It appears to be different to me and I always wanted to ask your guys opinion. I have never seen a wolf face up close other than in pictures.

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Only wolves I've ever seen were full size mounts. This is where I get my impression of a "wolf look". But they did have the Dark fur on their heads, and the distinctive white fur over their eys, I don't see on regular ones.

Most of the smaller coyotes around here have "red" or grey fur on them. Larger ones always tend to run much darker. And the little ones have little variation in facial color.

One other difference is gait. I like to think a coyote has a "bouncing" trot. The big ones do not bounce, but respond to the call running much as a horse would, if that helps.

Other tip off is I've shot 30 pound coyotes so old the had little yellow rounded nubs for teeth. I've shot 50 pounders with perfectly sharp, brand new teeth with virtually no wear. They can't be that old. So common sense considering some of the way these dogs move, and how big they get right out of the box would lead me to believe they aren't just big coyotes.

But no, I'm no biologist /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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One of the differences i notice,is that they like to feed on larger prey,more often than there western cousin.For this reason,i believe there must be wolf blood in the eastern coyotes. Wolves hunted large animals,like moose and caribou. I believe this trait may be why the larger coyotes of the east,like to feed on deer and wild turkeys.



Here in Newfoundland, the "eastern coyotes" tend to eat caribou and moose more than any other kind of game.
 
3rd Alarm how much did these coyotes weigh? Looking at the ones teeth it looks very young last years pup possibly?

Without DNA testing or finding a coyote that is extremly large as sleddogg has in the pics is hard to say.
They are not limited to the far northeast.I killed a male coyote around 10 or 12 years ago with my father that went 61lbs on a cotton scale,this was in south AL on the FL line.
 
Rich,

I believe that as far as the genetic makeup of an eastern coyote versus it's western cousin may be different. There are so many things that could make them bigger in size. Look at how small horses started out, they were supposedly as small as dogs. We may be seeing mother nature in action, the weather conditions, size of food supply and habitat. All these combined could be evolving the eastern coyote bigger in size. I have seen alot of the same things sleddog has mentioned when it comes to coyotes resembling western coyotes and others that have a look all of there own. I have caught these bigger coyotes in traps and swore they were mixed with red wolves. They have "mask's" facial appereance. Although they would carry on while in the trap and howl and bark at me just as a coyote would.
You have whitetails all over the United States, for some reason certain geographical locations yield bigger racked and body sized whitetailed deer. Some claim that the midwest deer grow bigger because of the nutrients in the soil in these areas. There may be some kind of connection here with coyotes also. May not be the soil but the deer they are consuming.
All i know for sure is that the eastern coyote is just as callable as the western. They react to the same sounds and approach a stand in the same manner a western coyote would. They can be called at any time of the day.

JD
 
I never weighed it, how ever I can tell you the teeth did look to be hardly warn and the dog was heavier than any other yot I have killed.

Later,

Scott
 
I don't think the Eastern coyote is bigger because it eats bigger game.I think the eastern coyote being bigger genetically lets it pursuit larger game.I think more western coyotes would eat more deer if they were big enough to tackle them,not if they eat more deer they will grow.
I will agree they respond to the same sounds as western coyotes.They can be called any time of the day,noon being my favorite time.They sometimes approach a stand in the same way.

That being said do we hunt our back yard coyotes the same as LBL coyotes?


You can take twin coyotes put one in central park put the other in the desert to live.They are coyotes but,they hunt different they travel different they eat and socialize different therefore they have become different.You can still call them both coyotes.You can still call them with the same call but if you change tactic's for the coyote in central park your success rate will increase.

If someone changes tactics to kill a certain coyote isn't that saying this coyote is different? Why is it soo hard for a eastern coyote to be different?

3rd Alarm if that coyote was alot bigger than most coyotes in your area and was that young it is possible you had a real bonified eastern coyote.
 
I agree with Plumbrich,

As I only know westerns from video and reading of them on the internet.

I would say that the tactics would be different depending on the landscape and other factors such as human activity and pressure on the coyotes. we don't have the ability to see the responding dogs from far off distances like in some states. Although the same calls may work, I believe that our coyotes are maybe less apt to come running full tilt because of the food sources possibly being more abundant.

A coyote is a coyote, maybe. But I think if a eastern guy goes west or vice versa, they need to be ready to change tactics and be ready to learn a "new" way to call.

And that to me makes them different, Smarter? maybe, maybe not but they surely are different.
 
I showed the picture of this coyote i killed on another site about a year or so ago.This coyote weighed a little over 55lbs.To me this coyote looks half wolf.What would you guys say?
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browning204,
I've hunted coyotes in the west and coyotes in the east. We do not change our setups or sounds. We call coyotes in here in the east while dogs are barkin there heads off at us, farmers in the fields, bow hunters in the woods hunting deer. Some of my better calling spots in the east are suburban coyotes, right next to towns. They come in, in the middle of the day to howling. You have got to know where the coyotes are in order to be successful consistantly in the east. That means spending ALOT of time scouting through out the summer and as you are hunting in the fall and winter. Out west, the population of coyotes is higher, that's all. Even if the coyotes we hunt east of the Mississippi do have wolf in them, they are no smarter or harder to call than a western coyote. If they are a mix breed, the coyote gene must be the dominant, cause i have yet to hear wolves howling around here at night. I do however hear coyotes pretty much on a nightly basis. We do have some big coyotes runnin around too, the biggest i have skinned to date was 62 lbs. shot by a deer hunter.

Rich,
Plan a trip this winter for a hunt with Brent and I up here in Ohio. It'd be a good time and hopefully some dogs will want to be movie stars. Hopefully we can get somethin worked out.

Later
JD
 
When I first hit the Predator Masters sight over 3 years ago, I was called an out right liar by some on the board when I would mention coyote weights in the East. Kind of fired me up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif

So I got a digital camera, shot some big dogs, and there you go.

But now talk of 50 or 60 pound Eastern coyotes is quite common, and pictures of more than a few surface each year. I'd like to think we have "enlightened" more than a few bashers.

So even though there aren't that many of us chasin coyotes around the Northeast, I'd like to think the Eastern forum has had some impact on the way folks veiw coyotes East and West.

I enjoy the Western coyote stories and pics, and even though the tactics I use are dramatically different than a Western caller, I have learned a few new tricks from Western hunters. I hope the folks out West stop by here to visit once in awhile also. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As far as coyotes go, I still subscribe to the 2 different species theory. But I'm a reasonable guy, and will listen and learn.

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Joe,the bottom one looks like the grey wolf my uncle shot in Ontario....Someday "If my health holds up" i would like to come up that way and do a little calling.Thats beautifull country up there.

pachuckhunter,I don't think the picture alone would be much help.They would need to check teeth,take blood samples and etc.
 
I've been told that this coyote has a distinctly "wolfy" look to it, but it's purebred Kansas coyote.

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Granted, he was crowding 40 pounds and blind in one eye, but he was long and lanky in build and had a head that was proportional to his body. We killed him Saturday morning while doing coyote control near our hometown.
 
I killed this coyote along with 2 others that weighed 43 and 46 pounds! My scales I carry in the woods only go to fifty,he went well past that mark .I would say he weighed between 55-60! To my knowledge he was 100% pure Texas/western coyote,no dumber than the rest just dead! Yet they were in a pack of 8 just like wolves.People here call them wolves all the time ,but they are coyotes! I will admit there are a few pics posted here that do resemble a wolf!
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you must first kill a coyote of any subspecies to make an educated guess about the intelligence level of a coyote! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 


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