Eastern coyotes the same???

I don't think a eastern coyote is smarter or western coyotes are dumb.I feel there is a difference and terrain is more of a dividing line maybe than the Big River.Now there is DNA proof there is a difference and we can see a difference our selves.

JD I believe you to be a successful coyote hunter I believe sleddogg to be a successful coyote hunter.I believe Iam a decent coyote hunter BUT we hunt different.WHY??
Because we have adapted to the different terrain and pressures of our surroundings.The coyotes in my area adapted to the smaller fields, mountains, large populations of people and adjusted there travel and feeding patterns to best fit the area.

When coyotes in different areas adjust and are taught by there parents they have become different than coyotes in different parts of the country.

I know I can take a distress call watch the wind and kill coyotes all over the country.To be good in one particular area I will need to change and adapt my tactics to be MORE successful.

If there is no difference then there would not be a need for an eastern coyote how to video we could just watch the western video's.We also would not need a special calling in the east forum.

My main point I try to get out to people is to not do everything I or others do but find the things we do that will work in youre particular area.It maybe a combo of east west and in between.

JD I do need to call Brent and set up our hunt dates in OCT and maybe a trip up there.I have already found a few more photogenic coyotes see you in OCT and FEB.
 
Very interesting topic Plumbrich!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

I believe,and I sure ain't no expert,that the coyote as we know it is the same critter just adapted to their environment.Eastern coyotes mix and breed with dogs and probably wolfs because of the instinct of survival of the species.It was'nt too many years ago around here that there were'nt any coyotes now they are everywhere.I think this interbreeding is part of what has caused the size increase along with the ample supply of food in the east and the weather changes.They have adapted to meet these changes.
The western has adjusted to the heat,lack of water,( compared to the east )the ability of the food they eat to see them greater distances.The smaller body does'nt need as much substanance as the larger one and is quicker,more able to run their prey over longer distances.
I'm pretty sure the coyote we see today is a mere image of it's former self. Just my 2 cents,worth what you paid for it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Hopefully you can make sence out of this mess I've wrote. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif Straycat
 
Well, I figure I may as well throw my 02 cents in….lol

I think the size difference in the coyotes comes from there genes. Some areas here have normal coyote body sizes and some don’t. Do they have wolf genes…I don’t know but it is possible. Granted these coyotes here have plenty to eat, lots of food here, and there are not as many coyotes here for competition for food either. Territories here are fairly large and with all the food they have here, the eat very well. But it still has to do with there genetics.

After hunting both east and west. I can say that our average coyote here will out weight the AZ coyote by several pounds. And the areas I hunted out there seem to have a lot of food as well, a lot more rabbits than we have here. I didn’t see as much big game but still lots of food there. But for some reason they seem to eat a ton of mesquite beans? Here I see a lot of Persimmon seeds in the scat. I cant see a coyote gaining a lot of weight eating mesquite beans? But I don’t know. I still think its all in the genetics’!

As for calling them….I didn’t see much difference in the East v/s West. Good example…..We called 46 coyotes in 6 days in AZ. But we didn’t hunt the same every day. We still had to find the coyotes, and we changed our set ups to the areas we were calling. And hunted some areas a couple times from different directions. We paid a lot of attn to how we set up. The coyotes there use the terrain to there advantage just like here. And we didn’t hunt private ranches…These areas were areas that got hunted by others. No secret spots.

The difference to me was the terrain we hunted, the wind, and just to be flat honest there were a heck of a lot more coyotes there than here! It’s a numbers game.

I also think there is a miss understanding on the open areas. The areas we hunted in AZ were not open by any means. When you set down to call, there were a lot of times we couldn’t see 50 yards. And it cost us several times. People think west they think big open areas, and that’s not always true.

Here the coyotes just use these things to there advantage. Same as there, terrain, wind, woods, thickets. Its just a little harder to set up on them here. You haft to know your area, and do your scouting. Heck we even scouted in AZ! We didn’t do a bunch of cold calling. We called coyotes like that but most of the time we drove the roads and hunted the areas that had the sign. If we didn’t find the sign we kept going. Unless we were hunting with someone who hunted these areas, then we went by what they said, but when we were on our own we hunted the sign.

I will say that I think these coyotes are different in a few ways. These coyotes here, have adapted to humans. They see a ton of pressure, there are a lot of what we call residential coyotes that set up there home in sub divisions, but the do out west to.

I think it all boils down to doing your home work! Find the coyotes and you can call them, if you put all the pieces of the puzzle together and play your cards right and make a GOOD set up, you can kill them were ever you hunt.

Brent
 
kee kee,mesquite beans are an awesome source of protein.probably why they eat them.One food source you left out,I don't know about the eastern ones ,but our coyotes practically live off of grasshoppers during the summer months another good source of protien!
 
Yep...our coyotes eat alot of grasshoppers! I wasnt sure about the mesquite beans....I know just about every pile of scat I sceen was full of them, I was really suprised that with all the rabbits I seen there was not much hair in the scat at all out west. A ton of mesquite beans though. I did notice the coyotes looked very healthy and well fit. There teeth looked good as well and there coat was shinny, witch told me there were getting good protien. They also had very good body tone, well built and strong.

I also noticed that when we hunted the crop lands, oranges, water mellons, ect....that the tend to eat alot of that stuff as well.....Nuthen like red coyote scat blowed everywere....lol

I was just really suprised they didnt have more black in there scat from eating meat and not much hair in there scat at all. Because there were rabbits everywere we hunted.

Another note I took....Was all the bobcat scat I scene was all black and all had hair!

This year I will be doing some video work on scat plus what is in there stomach that they have eaten before they were shot! I think that will be very interesting and I will also note how full they were when they responded to the call! I have documented here that 90% of the time when they respond to the call there stomach is at least half full!

Brent
 
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wait till you see a plum shooter! that's what my wife calls the one's that have just filled up on plums before you kill'em!
bobcats don't eat much vegetable matter maybe a little grass from time to time! Coyotes are lazy and will eat anything that will fill them up quick and easy plums,mesquite beans,soy beans,corn,accorns,persimmons ,water melons,hackberries ,pecans,grass, just to name a few! They love water melons though why I'm not sure, not much of source of anything that I know of,except liquids,but I've seen them drag a 20 pound melon a long ways from the field.
As for the scat not having hair,here it usually does during the winter months more so than the summer.
 
I have seen a few plum shooters...lol And your right they can drag a melon a long ways!...lol

Persimmons do a number on them as well. Them seeds cant feel good comming out...lol...I can see them now going around in circles, wining, and wimpering as they get rid of them....LMAO!

I have been out there in the winter months, and some have had hair in them but for the most part its been veges and mesq beans.

I dont see much sign of them eating soy beans or accorns here though. Thats diffrent.

Lots of meat for them to pick from here though, even a lazy coyote can eat meat here...lol

Brent
 
Man, what a great tread!
I can't add much to it, but am I ever getting alot out of it.
Re: rabbits. I once read that an ol' Injun said something along these lines; that he would starve eating rabbit & would get fat eating white fish. I've come across this a couple of times. Is there more protien in the beans than the rabbits? Maybe it takes more calories to catch & eat a rabbit than what they get out of them. Like us & cucumbers.
 
Rabbits contain enough protein so that a diet of nothing but rabbit led to protein death for early explorers. Almost zero fat, and without fats in our diet we die.
 
Yeah, they sometimes died from what was called rabbit famine and the early trappers learned to make pemmican real quick.
The mesquite bean is loaded with carbs, fat and protein and was a staple of the local Indians diet as it is for the coyote. The Papago (which means bean-eater) relied heavily year round on it.
Coyote scat will often contain only mesquite at all times of the year even when cottontails are plentiful. But they seem to concentrate on only one thing at a time for short periods. We find scat that is nothing but pink plop around watermelon season, orange plop around cataloupe fields, black logs and/or squirts around deadpiles, mounds of grasshopper legs, and sometimes twists of cottontail and other rodent hair. The scat from urban coyotes is entertaining, multi colored hair( Tabby and Fifi) and an amazing assortment of trash.
 
All the coyote scat i find here in pa.,always has some kind of hair in it,be it ground hog,deer,rabbit,ground squirrels and someones colorfull pet.I also notice there is other matter in it also,like grasshoppers,berries,vegetation and many others.All the droppings are usually dark in color.I have never seen corn in there droppings as mentioned above,not that they may not eat it,i just haven't seen it.In the spring and winter the hair of deer seems to be the most noticeable.In the summer months it seems mixed up with different animals,vegetation,berries,and others,but it is always dark in color,which tells me they are eating meat,year round.Sometimes i find splatter like,Rich has mentioned,but there are no mellons here for them to eat and the splatter is almost black in color.What they eat to caused this,i have no idea.
 
A few more weeks and I will have rasberries and blackberries everywhere. The wild strawberries are up now. I expect I will be seeing some seeds in the scat soon.

PS, I have observed that if one dumps a big pile of kitty litter on some rocks out in the woods (so a mower can get through the area without hanging up), the next morning one will observe that the yotes have used it.
 
when I lived in Alabama,we had some(you noticed the word Had)black coyotes on our hunting club.Average was running close to 50 lbs.We were always finding dead deer,mostly yearlings,half eat'n.Couldn't kill'em all but we put a hurt'n on them for about 2 years.
 
I find this to be very interesting. I know there is a distinct difference in size and appearance of coyotes. I had a neighbor show up at my door with the biggest coyote I have ever seen early this spring. I told him that it couldn't be a pure coyote due to it's size. I weighed it at an honest 68lbs. No kidding, no exaggeration. I took a couple pics with a 35mm of it lying in the truck. I'll try to scan them and post if I ever get them developed. It is one scary looking critter. Can a coyote get this big? I don't know but it sure looks like a coyote. I have killed 4 and all have been less than 40lbs, so this size is not typical of my area.
Scat in my area is most commonly full of deer hair. I do find berries also but mostly hair.
 
trapwv, I have heard of bigger,but thats a whopper for sure. How far are you from Barber County? I will be down that way in October calling coyotes,just out of philippi WV. I got an invitation from some good west virginia folks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Barbour County is home to me. The dog in the earlier post was killed in Barbour. I myself live just out of Philippi. I probably know the guys you're hunting with. Population around here is not real high but they are around. I have done best a little farther south, Lewis County area. Alot of guys chasing them now days and it is hard to find any areas that are uncalled. Dog hunters still doing well though. Wish you luck, hope you enjoy hunting our area. I have done a bit of hunting around Marianna. Are you familiar with that area?
 
Don't remember of being in Marianna. I may have drivin through there? You may know these folks down that way,they live about 4 miles out of Philippi. When calling pressured coyotes,its always a win or loose situation and i'm getting use to it.You are welcome to join us if you have some free time then.
 
yote tote
Sorry about the delay, been busy. I also hunted around the Brownsville, Centerville area, which is close to Marianna. I appreciate the invite but it is doubtful. I have very little time available but you can check on me as the time nears.(never know) Most of my hunting involves squeezing one stand in at dusk. I normally don't start until fur primes and fox/cat season comes in. But I will shoot a coyote any time he shows his face. Just hate to educate the fox bwfore they prime. Need to run, Happy Hunting!
 


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