Effective coyote range for .223?

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Perhaps there are two sub-topics going on here....
One is proper, one is well meaning but off topic..

The focus of the tpoic is just as the heading says:

""Effective coyote range for .223?""

So in my mind the author wants to know, at what max range, does a .224 projectile from a ".223 Rem" have the ability to cleanly kill an "average" coyote...

...This is a ballistic question, not a hunt/call technique question.



Thankyew. You're exactly right. As I mentioned, I want to know what to look for in a scope. However, I have found the variety of opinion and perspectives fascinating.

Based on chilirojo's great photo, my 3/4" MOA rifle is theoretically capable of hitting the vitals of a coyote at 400 yards. The remaining energy at 400 yards is still greater than the 22 Magnum's muzzle energy, so again theoretically, my .223 might be a 400 yard rifle.

So that seems to be the outer limit. I think the variation in opinions comes from folk's varied experience with the environment (wind, terrain, light, etc.), gear, skill, and varied coyotes!

Thanks for all the comments, gents!
DaveD
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif This is why I use a .308, I'm not the best caller in the world and sometimes I have to take a poke at'em from a good distance. I KNOW I'm packin enough steam to do the job. I don't however advocate doing so without intamitely knowing your firearm. But as for me, I shoot ATLEAST 100 rounds a week at various yardages(300-1000 yds.)at my range.
 
I've killed a few out past 300 yards and if I can do my part I'm confident the 223 is up to the task based on past experience. I do like them closer though and generally 100 yards and in is the norm. While my objective is killing coyotes, I like to call them just as much.
 
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While my objective is killing coyotes, I like to call them just as much.



True dat... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Ok I can't believe I am going to say this...in fact I just checked to make sure I didn't take too much of my blood pressure medicine and it made me light headed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I have been on this board for awhile now and I have had a few disagreements with Chili but......In this case he is (OMG here it comes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif) absolutely right!!!!! (oh crap I can't believe it my head didn't explode) His post with the demonstration shows perfectly why you can not say that at 500 yards it's a dead COYOTE (not Coyoteee or dog) everytime.
I know some superior shooters and they will tell you what Chili did, that is a long shot on a small target for DRT everytime, there are too many variables and in my opinion only a high percentage clean kill shot should be taken. Plus calling them in up close and personal is alot more fun. This is just my opinion, please understand that I am not knocking anyone for their practices. Sorry guys but I have to lay down now this has been very draining on me.
 
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...whether I should spring for a BDC scope, target turrets and/or a fancier reticle



Dave:

I live in Shoshoni, WY and I do a lot of long range shooting. Some of the finest long range/tactical rifle shooters in the world live in Wyoming with several notables living in the Casper area. Opinions regarding the turret vs. reticle debate vary widely. If you want to get past the thread drift and lecturing about long range shooting, send me an e-mail and we can set up a time to visit on the phone. I'll share with you my experiences with Nightforce, Schmidt and Bender, US Optics, and Leupold scopes with turrets and various reticles. If you want to get in the long range shooting business I can refer you to some top notch shooters that live near you. Better yet, if you want to meet at Stuckenhoff's Shooting Center next summer, I shoot matches there about once a month. I'll drag along a couple of rifles and you can see how things work for yourself.
 
Effective range of any rifle/load is how far one can hold the kill zone of a target with every shot.

With that said, the whole purpose of calling is to get them in close for a humane kill. Not taking pot shots and taking a chance of wounding something to die a slow terrible death! There is no doubt in my mind that I could make 500 yd shots on coyotes. Do it on a regular basis on PD's and they are way smaller. The excitement here is in the calling! If I can't get them in close I let them walk. Not going to take a chance even slight of wounding one. Marginal shots on a PD will still kill it. Not on a coyote. I would feel really bad knowing that I sent an animal off wounded to die.
 
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Not going to take a chance even slight of wounding one.

Doesn't the chance of making a less than perfect shot exist every time you pull the trigger? For that matter, what's the difference between wounding a prarie dog or wounding a coyote? Around here both are non-game animals and both are considered little more than pests. I personally know a guy who shot over 900 coyotes from the air last year. Do you think every one of those died on the spot? Is he unethical? This winter he has stacked them up like cord wood running an HCN line miles long. Is that ethical?

I wounded a coyote on New Year's day and then I emptied my rifle in a failed attempt to finish it off as it bit at it's side and spun like a top. My brother then shot the coyote dead as I fumbled around reloading my rifle. I shot low and a little far back at a very reasonable distance. Was I unethical taking the shot? The difference between an ethical hunter and a slob hunter is the ethical hunter will take reasonable precautions to prevent wounding animals and he/she will expend whatever resources it takes (within reason) to recover a wounded critter.

In my experience, discussions about distance, ethics, and so forth only inflame tempers and lead to locked threads. I have killed several coyotes past 500 yards and I didn't feel the shot was unethical. I had the distance pegged, I had all of the resources required to make the shot, the conditions were favorable, and the coyote died. I have also wounded coyotes at distances under 50 yards. Which is more unethical, a hasty shot at a loping coyote at 35 yards or a deliberate, well executed shot at 400 yards? Only the guy behind the trigger can answer that question.
 
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I have killed several coyotes past 500 yards and I didn't feel the shot was unethical. I had the distance pegged, I had all of the resources required to make the shot, the conditions were favorable, and the coyote died.



And herin lies the secret my friends. A hunter who knows his firearm, conditions and how to make it all work. THAT is the key to effective ranges. It's not always ballistics and energy delivered.

I won't sit here and act like I am some awesome shot. Because I am not. Those of you who know me, know I only have about 4 yote kills under my belt. The furthest being 150 yards. The key is this, with every shot (except the runner who would have been #5) I knew I had pegged.

But here is another kicker, I shot at another with a new rifle I had just zeroed. $3000 custom .308 with a $1500 USO ST-10 on it. Had an easy 250 yard shot on a yote and missed. Why? I didn't know the gun for one thing. The other? My high speed scope has a sweet BDC on it that was set at 400 yards. I shot clean over..... Know your equipment, know your equipment...

Had to edit this to add another thought. I am extremely guilty of this one:
I have to many freakin guns! It is hard to learn one, when switching out all the time. Back in my grandfathers day up in Michigan, he had a 12ga and a 30-30. More critters went down to those two guns than all of my collection combined. Will I trim back the numbers? No way, I am to much of a gun queer. But, you can see my point can't you?

There is only one gun I own that I know like my left foot, My AR, go figure. Would I take a 500 yard shot with it? Only if all the conditions were right. Could I kill it if everything lined up? No doubt in my mind. Could I do it everytime? Doubt it. Luck still plays a hand.
 
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Being another WA coyote hunter and enjoy hunting the eastside sage. I don't get out as much as I like and only have six dogs killed for six days of coyote hunting this year. During that week of hunting I called in 19 coyotes all under 200 yds some were skylined so we no shot taken some as doubles and only 1 shot at and we got busted a couple times our longest kill was just over 100yds after a miss a 40. The closest coyote popped up from under a shelf my partner was sitting on at 10'. He stopped it at30yds. Another walked a few feet behind my partner and I had to wait for it to get far enough away from him so as not to get my butt kick by my partner (ex-cop and hunter ed instructor) he's very picky about safety.

This was all on public land and heavily hunted at that. I think someone needs to work on his hunting skills as much as his shooting.

I have a 243 w/4.5x14 scope, haven't ever taken it coyote hunting here in WA, until this year my go to gun was a 6x45mm w/1x4x20mm and I never felt I was lacking This year I went to a little more fur friendly rig.

AWS
 
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Anyone; who boldly states that a coyote in plain sight, at 500 yards is a dead dog, has climbed the tree so far up, EVERYONE, can see his big lyin' [beeep]:)
The average coyote, presenting a broadside shot,(which they all do right) is exposing a lethal target, approx 3 1/2 inches in height, and about a (Im being generous) 10" in length of a target. An error of 25 yards could snuff that shot, much less wind etc. Anyone who can puff his chest, and claim to hit that size target with ease at 500 yards has:
"A" not shot enough coyotes to know better
"B" lives a very sheltered life,and believes that because the local boys down at the coffe shop by his bs, everyone does
"C" Is quite simply, a bad liar; a good liar is an entertaining sob, a bad liar, upsets most fellas, because if we let it go by, the story teller assumes we believe such nonsense, and insults our intelligence:)
500 yards is a hell of a poke, under even the best conditions, but quarterboredout, waves his arms and shouts about howling winds on the vast prarries shooting at 5-600 yard coyotes, and even hitting them with some degree of regularity. Am I the only one that dismisses those stories as unmitigated BS, or is that a chip shot in most minds?

That about says it all. I think more than a couple these fellas inhabit this wonderful site. I've taken more 4 or 5 hundred yard shots than I can remember- with everything from a .223 to a .22-250 bull barrelled monster to a .243 and not hit crapola. All my successful shots have been made at 300 yards or less.
 
LMFAO!

Since this is the internet I can easily say I kill coyotes at ranges well over 500 yards all of the time. With a peashooter!

Sometimes these threads are best enjoyed wearing hip boots.
 
It has sure gotten deep here. Great pic and explanation Chili. Heck, I shoot a pretty deadly 220 Swift that has busted way more than 300 dogs and I hate taking a shot over 400. One was a head shot using a Burris ballistic plex. That thing works. I can make them and have confidence in my rig but don't like doing it. With a 223 at that range, nope. I'll let them walk. I also shoot a 223 but only in areas I know the shots will be in it's reasonable capabilities.
 
Just goes to show you... those who can't will always preach to those that can. Last coyote I shot was at 375 (spot/stalk)... but I shot one the week before that at just under 50 (called), so I guess it goes both ways. If you can't shoot at 5 bills... don't do it, but don't assume that your self-imposed shooting limits should apply to everyone else. For me, a dog I can see AND RANGE is taking fire... and inside of 6 hundy he's got serious troubles.

That's a great pic Chili... and it shows how small coyotes truly are. I'd say that's a pretty little dog, but a good example none the less. I was telling my brother the other day that a coyote has a 6" kill zone... my experience indicates that's pretty accurate. That being said... with any of the big 6s or my favorite 25-06 most anything in the body is instantantly anchoring, but with the little stuff (read .22 CFs) you'll need to hit your coke bottle. ~josh
 
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For me, a dog I can see AND RANGE is taking fire... and inside of 6 hundy he's got serious troubles.



At six hundred the only serious problems your likely giving the coyote is from scaring his food away. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
yeah... I guess we better give the one mouth to mouth that we killed at 702 couple weeks ago. Like I said... just because you can't... doesn't mean someone else can't either. I can't run a 5 minute mile (or even an 8 minute mile)... but I know there's a lot of guys who can.
 
So we started with 500 yds being automatic. Then anything within 600 was in serious trouble. Now 700+ is well within reason. Wonder how long this thread will need to go before milers become the norm?

BTW - Bumping it 2 yds like it was measured with a laser does not add legitimacy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 


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