Factory rifles that shoot 1/2 MOA all day long?

I've got a Savage 12 FCV in 204. Doing an OCW test with 39 gr Blitzking's and H4895 it shot these groups. 7 out of the 9 groups shot sub .5", I'd say that's pretty good for 9 different charges.

Top left target were my sighters using the charges listed to the left


Top left target I used for foulers using 32 gr Vmax factory ammo. These were shot before my sighters



 
I have two rifles that are capable of shooting 1/2 in groups all day .The problem is the shooter cant do it all day. [beeep] the shooter cant even do two days in a row.I wish i could,but i am a person not a rifle too many variances. I shoot 12-15,000 rounds every year the rifle preforms the same,I dont.But i will keep shooting.Just being honest!!
 
It's just my personal opinion, but like DAA indicated, they are rare since the standard for shooting an "All Day Long" (more than five 5 shot groups) creates a few negative factors...The two most common being barrel/chamber residual heat build up exacting barrel distortion and the shooter getting tired to the point that concentration on consistency starts to degrade...

I do, however, believe that there are factory rifles that will, and do, produce .5" groups from the first shot to the fifth...and if heat is allowed to dissipate and environmental factors don't change to a large degree, they can repeat very similar performance, providing the shooter is up to the task...

Case in point: Several years ago, there was an "Honor" type challenge set up by one of the members on this site, where we were challenged with shooting five 5-shot groups at 100 yards, with the smallest groups proclaimed winner, etc...I procrastinated going to the range due to poor weather until about the last day for targets to be posted and had a couple of rifles (bolt and AR for the two classifications) and as I was finishing the bolt action target, shooting a stock Savage .204, a storm was brewing and the lightening alarm at the range began sounding and the Range officer gave the five minute warning to clear the range...

In my haste to get the last two groups off, I rushed and the barrel distortion opened up my last group and kicked me out of the running, but the previous groups were in the .3s....
 
Originally Posted By: KyleWoodsI've got a Savage 12 FCV in 204. Doing an OCW test with 39 gr Blitzking's and H4895 it shot these groups. 7 out of the 9 groups shot sub .5", I'd say that's pretty good for 9 different charges.



I'd say that's pretty good too. And I hope you don't think I'm picking on you, but your post is an excellent illustration of why this subject will never die around here.

So... This isn't aimed at you, it's just in general.

But, for one thing, three shot groups just don't count, in this conversation. Not even close.

An some of us just have very different measuring techniques. What one man might measure as sub .5 MOA, I might not.

So, somebody might shoot a few three shot groups that maybe I'd average at .550. That's pretty good. But it's a LONG ways from being a genuine .5 MOA rifle, by my standards. A LONG ways.

Bottom line, there are plenty of ways this subject gets talked past each other. I think most guys on the 'net claiming to have a 1/2" rifle really believe they do have one. Or at least, think their rifle would be a real deal half incher "if they could do their part".

Whereas, others, including myself, look at the data and the evidence and just think, ahhh nope, that ain't one either...

But, then there are the guys claiming to have 1/4 MOA factory rigs. Which, means they either just don't actually know what that means. Or they are full of poop. I'm guessing most of them simply don't know what they are saying even means. If they did, they'd know that absolutely nobody is going to believe them.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: DAAOriginally Posted By: KyleWoodsI've got a Savage 12 FCV in 204. Doing an OCW test with 39 gr Blitzking's and H4895 it shot these groups. 7 out of the 9 groups shot sub .5", I'd say that's pretty good for 9 different charges.



I'd say that's pretty good too. And I hope you don't think I'm picking on you, but your post is an excellent illustration of why this subject will never die around here.

So... This isn't aimed at you, it's just in general.

But, for one thing, three shot groups just don't count, in this conversation. Not even close.

An some of us just have very different measuring techniques. What one man might measure as sub .5 MOA, I might not.

So, somebody might shoot a few three shot groups that maybe I'd average at .550. That's pretty good. But it's a LONG ways from being a genuine .5 MOA rifle, by my standards. A LONG ways.

Bottom line, there are plenty of ways this subject gets talked past each other. I think most guys on the 'net claiming to have a 1/2" rifle really believe they do have one. Or at least, think their rifle would be a real deal half incher "if they could do their part".

Whereas, others, including myself, look at the data and the evidence and just think, ahhh nope, that ain't one either...

But, then there are the guys claiming to have 1/4 MOA factory rigs. Which, means they either just don't actually know what that means. Or they are full of poop. I'm guessing most of them simply don't know what they are saying even means. If they did, they'd know that absolutely nobody is going to believe them.

- DAA

No offense taken, I definitely understand the difference between 3 and 5 shot groups. I was just looking for a POI so that's why I only shot 3 shots.

I just thought I would put my two cents in and stir the pot a little
tt2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: barkThe title says half moa all day. Not 1/2" @ 100 yards. I thought I would see more 5" 1k yard groups. How about 3" @ 600 yards?

It took me all day... LOL

Originally Posted By: reddog964Here's 5 @ 1000 yds




Originally Posted By: hm1996That's some hard holding, Red. What caliber?

Regards,
hm

6x47L - 105gr VLD


Originally Posted By: hm1996This rifle is up to it. The shooter, not so much any more.
frown.gif




Regards,
hm

Good Shooting
wink.gif


That's my PROBLEM also, These eye's are getting OLD.. gonna have some work done on them this summer I hope!
 
Originally Posted By: reddog964Just stirring the pot
wink.gif


Does factory rim fires count?... and there is 5 in each hole...



You sure those were Mini Mags....I thought only $20 a box match ammo that's been rim sorted could shoot like that.

I was doing some testing with CCI ammo in my new 452 last Fri. The The Mini's beat SV's and Sub Sonic's.

These "5" shot groups were shot at 50 with a 4X Leuplod Rimfire scope and really really really old eyes.
The orange dots are 1" for comparison

I'm not sure what happened to #5 but I suspect Russian interference.



Old school Squirrel gun.

 
Originally Posted By: OldTurtle
Case in point: Several years ago, there was an "Honor" type challenge set up by one of the members on this site, where we were challenged with shooting five 5-shot groups at 100 yards, with the smallest groups proclaimed winner, etc...

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2293962

I was watching that one. Pretty sure it was open to customs, as well. Might have to be something you would actually take out calling, though. Made a go at the AR Challenge. Didn't shoot for the bolt challenge as I knew I wouldn't be in the hunt. I'd certainly be interested to see some of the rigs mentioned here run through this and posted up.
 
I have to question how many shooters can do it all day long even with a rifle shooting a laser instead of bullets. There are a lot of total gun nuts on this site, but I bet the average joe hunter can't do it "all day long". I can keep it together for a few groups, but sooner or later I get tired or lose focus.
 
Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce660I have to question how many shooters can do it all day long even with a rifle shooting a laser instead of bullets. There are a lot of total gun nuts on this site, but I bet the average joe hunter can't do it "all day long". I can keep it together for a few groups, but sooner or later I get tired or lose focus.

+1

Most are clueless to what the wind does to groups.
 
Originally Posted By: ackleyman
Most are clueless to what the wind does to groups.

Wind is such an issue for the games I play
 
how many people do you know that use a wind flag at the range or on p. dog Towns?

This one is cheap, and is worth gold when it comes to reducing the size of groups:

1/4" steel rod, bicycle spoke bent, 1/2" red yarn







Reading the target, head wind coming from 1 o clock, vertical predictable in this custom 223 AI:

 
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