Fair Chase?

gotchanow

Active member
I dont know how it is in other states but here one guide in particular pays people to find large bull elk. He then pays someone to sit on the bull (sometimes they follow the herd for weeks) until a hunter arrives to shoot it. I want to know what you all think of this. Is it any different than hunting elk inside a fence?
 
I think you might be talking about Doyle? Anyway, I think it's much different from high fence hunting. Free range elk can move for many miles and have their choice of terrain to feed and bed in. A fence restricts the elk to a predetermined area. Even Doyle isn't going to guarantee 100% success like you can get on some high fence operations.
 
Wonder what it pays... being the chase man, that is? Basically it's paying a guy to hunt for you for days/weeks before you even arrive in the area.

I think it's fair chase... for someone! But it's like paying someone to play golf for you, then you hop out of the cart and take the ball out of the cup and mark down "your" score. Kinda doesn't make sense to me.

There's an element of fun and excitement, I suppose, but coming in on the end and making the shot is pretty lame.
 
I'll bet it's not inexpensive. Kinda nice to have someone else do all the work. If all you want is a bragging head on your wall and your willing to pay the price, well it's not exactly hunting is it.

Have to say that in all my years of hunting I've never been on a guided hunt, but know a bunch of folks that guide. It's a business and some are always trying to figure out how to make it a more successful business. That looks to be one way to do that.

I think I'll just continue doing it my way, at least til I win the lottery.
 
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I want to know what you all think of this



I think, i would like the number for these people around your area so i can pay them , to help me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
and leave the outfitter out of the hole equation ..

got a number /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
It's not like a guy is getting paid to live with the elk. He just scouts and keeps track of the bulls in the area. The shooters usually spend several days in the hills trying to track down the specific bull that was found by scouts. If you have a limited entry or Governors tag and want a 400+ class bull, Doyle is probably the guy you want to write a check out too. Even at that, you might spend days hiking your hind end off and never find the big one.
 
Just another wanna b hunter method of killing large trophys,bought and paid for just like livestock,not to mention the tactics those mossback bozos use to run off local hunters who may have a tag in the area,regardless of the fact its public land.
 
Those shows that show them shooting tame elk offend me, it is like shooting a cow, they just stand there like what was that! The tame antlers look different than wild ones.T.20
 
Yeah I am not too big on this type of hunting at all. It is still fair chase yes, but the real issue I have is where does the big money start pushing outfitters and others into less fair methods of hunting. It is like lion hunting, but only going out once the cat is treed. I will stick with doing it my way and let em have thier until it is directly taking away from other hunters opprotunity.
 
I think the failure of a hunt is at important as the success. If it was a matter of just going out to an area that someone KNOWS there is a trophy animal, then setting up and shooting it, where was the excitement of finding something on your own? Even when a hunt is not successful, I feel that I succeeded in learning patience and a fact of life that some folks miss... Sometimes things arent going to go YOUR way, but at least YOU put forth an effort on your own.
 
Weasal how did you know I was talking about Doyle Moss? Ive actually seen his guides try to stop people from driving down public roads because he had a hunter in the area. for those of you who who are asking an elk hunt is $6250 with a $5000 trophy fee for a bull over 400 B&C that does not include the tag which is another 10 to 40 thousand depending on the unit.
 
I think everyone knows about him,and nobody likes the way he runs his "outfit",some day he will regret his tactics because the locals will find a way to shut him down,one small F&G decision to prevent those "trophy fees' would shut him down.
 
Like NONYA said "everyone knows about him". I wouldn't purposely drive down a road if it was going to screw up somebodies hunt, but try to keep me off public ground just to keep it for yourself and it's likely to get western real quick. The only thing I like about Doyle is he will put out 100% for his clients. He has also put people on 400"+ bulls just because they had a rare tag, NO CHARGE! I'll never hunt with Doyle or any other big name guide not only because I couldn't afford it, but because I'm satisfied with a spike bull in the freezer. I want to be a part of the scouting and hunting. I don't want to be just a shooter and I'm sure 99.9% of us feel the same way. There is a place up the road from me where a guy can go and pick his bull out of a pen. You can hand feed it and name the darn thing if you want. Pay the fee and they trailer your chosen animal out to an enclosed area north of here and you can shoot your "trophy". How twisted is that? A hunt with a guy like Doyle is what you make of it. Not many people want to get a call, go meet a guy in the field and shoot the animal he points out. That's not hunting at all. Anybody that would be proud of an animal taken like that has a screw loose. Put some miles on your boots, do alot of glassing and hunt like you mean it. Even if you have Doyle or one of his guys along, at least you are hunting. For me, and I'm sure for most of you we hunt to hunt, not to kill. The killing is just a result of having hunted.
 
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Like NONYA said "everyone knows about him". I wouldn't purposely drive down a road if it was going to screw up somebodies hunt, but try to keep me off public ground just to keep it for yourself and it's likely to get western real quick. The only thing I like about Doyle is he will put out 100% for his clients. He has also put people on 400"+ bulls just because they had a rare tag, NO CHARGE! I'll never hunt with Doyle or any other big name guide not only because I couldn't afford it, but because I'm satisfied with a spike bull in the freezer. I want to be a part of the scouting and hunting. I don't want to be just a shooter and I'm sure 99.9% of us feel the same way. There is a place up the road from me where a guy can go and pick his bull out of a pen. You can hand feed it and name the darn thing if you want. Pay the fee and they trailer your chosen animal out to an enclosed area north of here and you can shoot your "trophy". How twisted is that? A hunt with a guy like Doyle is what you make of it. Not many people want to get a call, go meet a guy in the field and shoot the animal he points out. That's not hunting at all. Anybody that would be proud of an animal taken like that has a screw loose. Put some miles on your boots, do alot of glassing and hunt like you mean it. Even if you have Doyle or one of his guys along, at least you are hunting. For me, and I'm sure for most of you we hunt to hunt, not to kill. The killing is just a result of having hunted.



Anyone I would consider a HUNTER feels the same way,the others are wanna Bs who dont have the patience or the want to do it the right way and EARN your game.A "unsucessful" freerange hunt is better than any high dollar stock shoot,I cherish every day in the field,regardless of the outcome.
 
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Like NONYA said "everyone knows about him". I wouldn't purposely drive down a road if it was going to screw up somebodies hunt, but try to keep me off public ground just to keep it for yourself and it's likely to get western real quick. The only thing I like about Doyle is he will put out 100% for his clients. He has also put people on 400"+ bulls just because they had a rare tag, NO CHARGE! I'll never hunt with Doyle or any other big name guide not only because I couldn't afford it, but because I'm satisfied with a spike bull in the freezer. I want to be a part of the scouting and hunting. I don't want to be just a shooter and I'm sure 99.9% of us feel the same way. There is a place up the road from me where a guy can go and pick his bull out of a pen. You can hand feed it and name the darn thing if you want. Pay the fee and they trailer your chosen animal out to an enclosed area north of here and you can shoot your "trophy". How twisted is that? A hunt with a guy like Doyle is what you make of it. Not many people want to get a call, go meet a guy in the field and shoot the animal he points out. That's not hunting at all. Anybody that would be proud of an animal taken like that has a screw loose. Put some miles on your boots, do alot of glassing and hunt like you mean it. Even if you have Doyle or one of his guys along, at least you are hunting. For me, and I'm sure for most of you we hunt to hunt, not to kill. The killing is just a result of having hunted.



Anyone I would consider a HUNTER feels the same way,the others are wanna Bs who dont have the patience or the want to do it the right way and EARN your game.A "unsucessful" freerange hunt is better than any high dollar stock shoot,I cherish every day in the field,regardless of the outcome.



+1
 
I haven’t hunted elk only deer but my feeling would be the same regardless. I love the hunting part more than the shooting part at the end. There have been times in the past when I was really picky just so I could keep on hunting a couple more days, matching wits with the animal, trying to get in just a little closer or find a little bit better critter. Driving into a field and shooting a tame anything isn’t my cup of tea. Have you ever shot planted birds….? Same concept. Fun…nope…no fun to be had.
 
I agree. I can shoot targets in my yard all I want. It's the hunt itself that leads to the addiction and to true satisfaction.
 
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Like NONYA said "everyone knows about him". I wouldn't purposely drive down a road if it was going to screw up somebodies hunt, but try to keep me off public ground just to keep it for yourself and it's likely to get western real quick. The only thing I like about Doyle is he will put out 100% for his clients. He has also put people on 400"+ bulls just because they had a rare tag, NO CHARGE! I'll never hunt with Doyle or any other big name guide not only because I couldn't afford it, but because I'm satisfied with a spike bull in the freezer. I want to be a part of the scouting and hunting. I don't want to be just a shooter and I'm sure 99.9% of us feel the same way. There is a place up the road from me where a guy can go and pick his bull out of a pen. You can hand feed it and name the darn thing if you want. Pay the fee and they trailer your chosen animal out to an enclosed area north of here and you can shoot your "trophy". How twisted is that? A hunt with a guy like Doyle is what you make of it. Not many people want to get a call, go meet a guy in the field and shoot the animal he points out. That's not hunting at all. Anybody that would be proud of an animal taken like that has a screw loose. Put some miles on your boots, do alot of glassing and hunt like you mean it. Even if you have Doyle or one of his guys along, at least you are hunting. For me, and I'm sure for most of you we hunt to hunt, not to kill. The killing is just a result of having hunted.



Weasel, you've got it right! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
if someone wants to pay big bucks to get a big animal then so be it but i know if i ever draw a tag there is going to be alot of time spent searching for a quality animal and probably a sour wife from me being gone looking for that animal...
 
The terms "canned hunt" and "fair chase" are so inappropreate and used too much and for peoples personal reasons. Fair chase.....do you use binos , high power rifles ,spotting scopes , motor vehicles ,topo maps , guns rests ,guides , spotters , ect. to "hunt" your game....and any number of other devices to attract or enhance you ability to take your intended game????? If you don't chase them on foot with a rock or stick then you have changed things in your favor to take the intended game. Is this wrong??? no... and is hunting just for the young able bodied ,wealthy ,people who have the time away from making a living to go to wild areas to perseu these animals??? or is hunting for the sub adult ,woman ,girlfriend , elderly , handicapped , physically impaired ???? Should fish finders , depth finders , outboard motors , fishing guides , special poles ,reels , lures be outlawed. Should fishing on farm ponds be outlawed because the fish are confined ?????? Hunting ,fishing , trapping , logging ,graising , anything out doors has changed from the beginning and that is the way of the world. You live in America where everyone has his or her choice as how they live their life and spend there off time. Don't condem others that are not following your "set" of harvesting methods , if they are legal, as someone else can come down on your particular ways and then you sure would wish for all of these other people you want to have stop their methods , on your side in legal and political battles. I raise white tail deer and they go into the hunting industry ....one of the oldest in the USA , and it is living off the land.....renewable resourse , has a huge trickle down effect on economy ....good for all in it...alternative agriculture....no different that fishing guides , hunting guides, camping guides....and yes camping industry makes money off wildlife and nature....non consumptive non the less. I don't hunt reserves , my choice ,but the ones that do are some of the current US citesens ...these people aren't as tough , maybe as you and I...but they like to spend time outdoors, with family , hunting or fishing together ,wifes , girl friends , grandpas and Mas, this is a huge way for non "rural" folks to participate in consumptive wildlife living . These people also from the cities are the ones going to vote in or out all laws we follow....we have no choice.... so is it better to have a way for them to do this and relate to us ,or shut the door on anyone who can't or doesn't do IT THE REAL WAY ??????? Every animal taken from a reserve is one less taken out of the wild making it better for any who hunt the wild . How would you like to share what you have now with the thousands of hunters who do hunts in reserves???? Would get real crowded fast and your wild experience would suffer a lot,fast. Huggers could say no more hunting "our" wild animals and only allow reserve hunting as it doesn't affect any wildlife.....how would that set with you???? not good for me....I am for both done with respect and as much enjoyment in either case. There are horror stories to go with either style of hunting so don't use these to typilify what goes on with either. I am sure if only females of the species were taken in reserves hardly any uproar would take place but the thought of someone taking something you desire by way of a check book and less sweat makes lots of people jealous of the situation ....this is only human nature...can pertain to any phase of life. There is no way any reserve can compare to the thrill of the wild west, mountains , streams ,vistas ect. as far as a hunt or memories , so that can never be taken away from those who get to experience this...only the end result may be more certain and that is the purpose of the reserve hunt... Have your opinions and stick together ,as we will need each other a lot real soon real bad...SM
 
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