tnshootist
New member
Would anyone know what load matches federal factory gold medal match 168 gr 308 load?
federal factory load
- Thread starter tnshootist
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GC
Well-known member
Would it be hard to duplicate? If you were really super serious about being exact wouldn't Federal Match brass, Federal Match primers, a Sierra 168 gr. MK bullet loaded to approximate the same COAL, and then any one of several suitable powders at the same velocity threshold get you there? You can tinker and fiddle with seating depth and/or powder type until you strike gold.
tnshootist
New member
I guess that's what a fellow would have to do.I had never heard of anyone having that recipe but thought I would ask.Is the bullet the sierra or does anyone know that for sure,it looks like it.
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: tnshootistI guess that's what a fellow would have to do.I had never heard of anyone having that recipe but thought I would ask.Is the bullet the sierra or does anyone know that for sure,it looks like it.
The bullet IS the Sierra 168 SMK.
Federal has three different powder loads for that round, to prevent shortages in case one or two of the powders becomes unavailable - all of them give the same velocity (which will very depending on YOUR rifle)...
... it is easy to duplicate - just chronograph some factory Fed Match, and then work up a load with the same 168 bullet and one of the better powders like Varget.
There is nothing secret about the load.
Meow
The bullet IS the Sierra 168 SMK.
Federal has three different powder loads for that round, to prevent shortages in case one or two of the powders becomes unavailable - all of them give the same velocity (which will very depending on YOUR rifle)...
... it is easy to duplicate - just chronograph some factory Fed Match, and then work up a load with the same 168 bullet and one of the better powders like Varget.
There is nothing secret about the load.
Meow
tnshootist
New member
OK Thanks.Sounds like it should be simple.
ricky_arthur
New member
The secret usually is that Ammo Manufacturers have a habit of using blended and proprietary powders that we do not have access to. You can get some of the 168gr bullets and work up a load with them, but it won't be the same. But who knows it may even be better for your specific weapon.
Originally Posted By: GCWould it be hard to duplicate? If you were really super serious about being exact wouldn't Federal Match brass, Federal Match primers, a Sierra 168 gr. MK bullet loaded to approximate the same COAL, and then any one of several suitable powders at the same velocity threshold get you there? You can tinker and fiddle with seating depth and/or powder type until you strike gold.
For whatever it's worth, I've "tinkered" with those rounds alot in the past, but finally gave up. You've got three of the ingedients right, but it's the powder blend that you just can't figure out. The other stuff is really simple by taking a few of the cartridges apart and take notes of the measurements, weight, etc, etc. You can even weigh the powder, but you just can't figure out the make-up of the powder. Probably one of the best kept secrets around.
For whatever it's worth, I've "tinkered" with those rounds alot in the past, but finally gave up. You've got three of the ingedients right, but it's the powder blend that you just can't figure out. The other stuff is really simple by taking a few of the cartridges apart and take notes of the measurements, weight, etc, etc. You can even weigh the powder, but you just can't figure out the make-up of the powder. Probably one of the best kept secrets around.
tnshootist
New member
Were you able to come up with something that shot as good?
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GC
Well-known member
Not to argue, however, isn't one of the key advantages of being a handloader the ability to try different combinations until you find something that works for your particular rifle? I've shot several thousands of the .308 168 gr. Federal GM load in countersniper schools, and in training scenarios, and for maintaining certification. It is an amazingly consistent factory load and one that I am quite familiar with.
With that said, using good handloading techniques and quality components a guy can load some pretty darned good ammo that suits his own particular rifle to perfection with very good results. Being a handloader doesn't make one entirely dependent upon factory ammo since we can usually achieve good results on our own. That's the only point I was trying to make. It's all good...
With that said, using good handloading techniques and quality components a guy can load some pretty darned good ammo that suits his own particular rifle to perfection with very good results. Being a handloader doesn't make one entirely dependent upon factory ammo since we can usually achieve good results on our own. That's the only point I was trying to make. It's all good...
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
GC is right... I have a supply of Lake City Military Match ammo (1964) and Federal Gold Medal Match (all.308 that shoots really good), but I will be in the process of building rounds that work well in my particular rifle, without attempting to duplicate the conponents of the cartridges I have in reserve...
There are enough combinations to work with that makes the load development fun, if a little frustrating at times...I use a few rounds of the 'Match' ammo for a base line to determine how close to the accuracy factor I'm getting...I don't worry about the matching the velocity as much as I do the accuracy...
This is one target that I shot with Federal Gold Medal Match at 100 yards (.308) and that's my base line for an accuracy load...
There are enough combinations to work with that makes the load development fun, if a little frustrating at times...I use a few rounds of the 'Match' ammo for a base line to determine how close to the accuracy factor I'm getting...I don't worry about the matching the velocity as much as I do the accuracy...
This is one target that I shot with Federal Gold Medal Match at 100 yards (.308) and that's my base line for an accuracy load...
tnshootist
New member
I understand.I'm sure that there is more than one load that shoots very good.
My goal is not to find something else that will work,I have already done that.I was just asking if anyone had information about federals load as it seems to shoot very well in everyone's rifle,and that is what I am looking for now.Thanks for all the info and suggestions,they are all good and I don't discount any of them. John
Let me add this to clear up what I am trying to say.
I am trying to find the load that will allow me to interchange with fed match without a sight change.That may not be easy but I need something to keep me interested.
My goal is not to find something else that will work,I have already done that.I was just asking if anyone had information about federals load as it seems to shoot very well in everyone's rifle,and that is what I am looking for now.Thanks for all the info and suggestions,they are all good and I don't discount any of them. John
Let me add this to clear up what I am trying to say.
I am trying to find the load that will allow me to interchange with fed match without a sight change.That may not be easy but I need something to keep me interested.
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CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: ricky_arthurThe secret usually is that Ammo Manufacturers have a habit of using blended and proprietary powders that we do not have access to. You can get some of the 168gr bullets and work up a load with them, but it won't be the same. But who knows it may even be better for your specific weapon.
Not really.
The powders WE use are blended versions of the SAME powders that commercial loaders use.
For example, we use W748, a powder that is blended to give the same burning rate for each lot - the Winchester load uses W750 - same powder, but not blended for an exact burning rate, so each delivery of (bunches of tons) will vary + or - in burning rate, and has to be graded by Winchester.
Once the burning rate is found, the loading machines are adjusted to give the same velocity as their "standard round" in that caliber.
There are no secret or proprietary powders - you can buy the same powders that are loaded by the "Big guys" but you need the ability to grade them, (and take delivery of large amounts of powder).
Meow
Not really.
The powders WE use are blended versions of the SAME powders that commercial loaders use.
For example, we use W748, a powder that is blended to give the same burning rate for each lot - the Winchester load uses W750 - same powder, but not blended for an exact burning rate, so each delivery of (bunches of tons) will vary + or - in burning rate, and has to be graded by Winchester.
Once the burning rate is found, the loading machines are adjusted to give the same velocity as their "standard round" in that caliber.
There are no secret or proprietary powders - you can buy the same powders that are loaded by the "Big guys" but you need the ability to grade them, (and take delivery of large amounts of powder).
Meow
ricky_arthur
New member
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: ricky_arthurThe secret usually is that Ammo Manufacturers have a habit of using blended and proprietary powders that we do not have access to. You can get some of the 168gr bullets and work up a load with them, but it won't be the same. But who knows it may even be better for your specific weapon.
Not really.
The powders WE use are blended versions of the SAME powders that commercial loaders use.
For example, we use W748, a powder that is blended to give the same burning rate for each lot - the Winchester load uses W750 - same powder, but not blended for an exact burning rate, so each delivery of (bunches of tons) will vary + or - in burning rate, and has to be graded by Winchester.
Once the burning rate is found, the loading machines are adjusted to give the same velocity as their "standard round" in that caliber.
There are no secret or proprietary powders - you can buy the same powders that are loaded by the "Big guys" but you need the ability to grade them, (and take delivery of large amounts of powder).
Meow
I'll stand by my statement and by your last line you do too...
Not really.
The powders WE use are blended versions of the SAME powders that commercial loaders use.
For example, we use W748, a powder that is blended to give the same burning rate for each lot - the Winchester load uses W750 - same powder, but not blended for an exact burning rate, so each delivery of (bunches of tons) will vary + or - in burning rate, and has to be graded by Winchester.
Once the burning rate is found, the loading machines are adjusted to give the same velocity as their "standard round" in that caliber.
There are no secret or proprietary powders - you can buy the same powders that are loaded by the "Big guys" but you need the ability to grade them, (and take delivery of large amounts of powder).
Meow
I'll stand by my statement and by your last line you do too...
ricky_arthur
New member
Originally Posted By: OldTurtleGC is right... I have a supply of Lake City Military Match ammo (1964) and Federal Gold Medal Match (all.308 that shoots really good), but I will be in the process of building rounds that work well in my particular rifle, without attempting to duplicate the conponents of the cartridges I have in reserve...
There are enough combinations to work with that makes the load development fun, if a little frustrating at times...I use a few rounds of the 'Match' ammo for a base line to determine how close to the accuracy factor I'm getting...I don't worry about the matching the velocity as much as I do the accuracy...
This is one target that I shot with Federal Gold Medal Match at 100 yards (.308) and that's my base line for an accuracy load...
That doesn't look like .308 holes to me???
There are enough combinations to work with that makes the load development fun, if a little frustrating at times...I use a few rounds of the 'Match' ammo for a base line to determine how close to the accuracy factor I'm getting...I don't worry about the matching the velocity as much as I do the accuracy...
This is one target that I shot with Federal Gold Medal Match at 100 yards (.308) and that's my base line for an accuracy load...
That doesn't look like .308 holes to me???
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
Quote:That doesn't look like .308 holes to me..Well, all I can say is they were shot out of the DPMS rifle I won at the DPMS 3-gun match in 2005 that I'm holding in the photo below...and shot about September of 2005...Bullets don't tear paper in a consistent size relative to the actual size of the bullet...Unless you are using "Wadcutters" and even then there can be a difference...
If you measure these, they won't measure .224" either...
And, I doubt that these will measure .204,,, But they are..
If you measure these, they won't measure .224" either...
And, I doubt that these will measure .204,,, But they are..
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tnshootist
New member
OT is that a pic of you?Now the mystery is gone.I had you pictured as a much more impressive figure,like Matt Dillon.Just kidding of course.That's a nice rifle,I am usually listed as also shot where ...
For what its worth,I just spoke by phone to a tech with a bullet maker who makes a good 168gr bullet most of us have used.I will not mention a name cause he asked me not to.
He said they think Federal uses a powder much like RL-15 around 42 to 43.5 gr.I guess anyone could speculate as much but he seemed like he was on the level and was super nice to answer questions he must have answered a million times.As I said,for what its worth.
For what its worth,I just spoke by phone to a tech with a bullet maker who makes a good 168gr bullet most of us have used.I will not mention a name cause he asked me not to.
He said they think Federal uses a powder much like RL-15 around 42 to 43.5 gr.I guess anyone could speculate as much but he seemed like he was on the level and was super nice to answer questions he must have answered a million times.As I said,for what its worth.
ricky_arthur
New member
Originally Posted By: OldTurtleQuote:That doesn't look like .308 holes to me..Well, all I can say is they were shot out of the DPMS rifle I won at the DPMS 3-gun match in 2005 that I'm holding in the photo below...and shot about September of 2005...Bullets don't tear paper in a consistent size relative to the actual size of the bullet...Unless you are using "Wadcutters" and even then there can be a difference...
I wasn't implying anything other than I thought you might have accidentally posted the wrong picture.
You have some fine shooting rifles there. One of them shoots so good it can sneak a 30 cal bullet into a 20 cal hole. lol
Carry on with the thread, my bad.
Ricky
I wasn't implying anything other than I thought you might have accidentally posted the wrong picture.
You have some fine shooting rifles there. One of them shoots so good it can sneak a 30 cal bullet into a 20 cal hole. lol
Carry on with the thread, my bad.
Ricky
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