Feds killing to many coyotes

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Wyocoyoter.
Since you think your so "morally suprerior" to a guy that "kills yotes during whelping season", and anyone who "dens" is "sleezy".
You seem to have a major "issue" , lets just get it out in the open and have a two sided discussion.
Lets hear how you make a living.
My point is not to cuss you for how you make a living, I couldn't care less, my point is that anything any person does for a living, there is another person that thinks they have the right to judge.
You have freely voiced your opinion,(which I STRONGLY dissagree with) but you are entitled to do so.
Here is my opinion, "you have no right to judge any other person."
I am proud to say, "I raise cattle,I also guide hunters, I like to see deer,elk and antelope fawns. Yotes need to be controlled just like anything else. I kill yotes year round, when I find a den,I kill the male and female and I kill every pup I can.Thats one less yote I HAVE TO KILL LATER.
I am not ashamed,and I have no trouble telling my wife, or my daughter, "I KILLED 8 PUPS TODAY".
 
Let's not let this devolve into the yearly shooting pups thread.

There's no problem with you saying you won't do it and even that the reason you won't kill pups is because you think it's ethically wrong for you to do so.

HOWEVER...regardless of whether or not YOU think it's right, if it's legal you can't do much about it.

PLEASE accept it or stay out of the discussion unless you can do it without insulting and disparaging legal hunters.

NOT HERE.



Sorry Duane, I wasn't stepping on your toes, you type faster than me
 
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rockinbar, i understand your point and agree somewhat, however the rancher profits from leasing public land, or at least that is the goal even though it is getting harderfor the family ranches, so yeah they should have to pay for the use of the land. these are the same people that piss and moan about elk grazing their lands wanting the governments help and to be reimbursed for damages but wont allow hunters to thin the heard.
 
One point we may want to consider is: If we lobby to stop ADC work on public lands, the tree huggers will certainly try and lump all coyote hunters into that group as well...Thus effectively creating at best a "season", and at worst, banning anyone from hunting coyotes.

All it takes is the right combination. Tree Huggers+Rouge Administration+Division among Hunters= No Hunting Period.
 
NMLEON, no offense taken. Well said!

We could start a whole thread on why ranchers control the access that they legally can.
He's a quote from an old rancher freind of mine,
"The only thing worse the animal damage is hunter damage"
"Animals don't know any better, hunters are just "culls"
Maybe all hunters should think about this,if you see guys "screwing up", say something to them, if you find garbage, pick it up, if you aren't sure leave gates as you found them. Anything at all in ? let the rancher, or hired man know about it.
Common sense for most of us, but "you can't bank on common sense".
Nuf said, this post is about "Feds, killing to many yotes."
 
There are plenty of coyote in the western us. I say the only good coyote is a dead one. I hope they kill every last one of those beagle eating devils.

Seriously there are so many coyote in the west I dont' see how you could really effect their population except in a small area.
 
It all depends on if you see the coyote as A game animal or as is stated above the only good coyote is A dead one...I see them as A game animal..We have way too many deer here in Nebraska and if the coyotes kill some of the fawns I do not have A problem with it....I do not hunt deer-elk-bear etc etc etc but I do hunt coyotes and that is what I enjoy doing...If I was A rancher maybe I would understad the kill em all attitude but I am from A rural farming area and we have little to no damage to cattle from the coyotes...There is one farmer that will not let you hunt coyotes on his land but he will let you bird or deer hunt...And as far as the Feds killing coyotes what I BELIEVE is that $$$$$$$ gets alloted for something and they are going to spend it whether it is needed or not....
 
I dont think anyone is killing too many coyotes. The guys that hunt them during the prime fur time arent killing enough. The people who shoot them year round killing both adults and pups alike arent killing enough. The government hunters no matter how they kill them arent killing enough. The coyote is a animal that is made to survive and that is what it will do no matter when they are killed or how they are killed.
 
I weighed in on this thread a long time ago and my name came up a couple times since. As I said before, I understand the need to aerial gun coyotes and to have full time trappers/hunters to control them. My only point was that I disagreed with Wyoming adding additional money from the general fund (6 million dollars) to supplement what was already being spent. Our local predator board had the money then to use a helicopter daily. According to an article in the Casper paper, the first year with the additional money, the cost per coyote was $984. If ranchers think that is an acceptable use of all taxpayers money and a reasonable return on investment, I disagree. If they want to raise the money among themselves, more power to them.

There is a difference between sport hunting coyotes, which I do and predator control which the professionals do. I mostly hunt them when the fur is good but if I feel like going out during the summer for a day or two, I do. Maybe that makes me unethical, but it's a free country, it's legal so I don't see the problem. The professional is being paid to kill as many coyotes as he can so I understand that he is going to use an airplane, helicopter, calling, trapping or denning to get the job done. It's whole different set of circumstances and I respect the guys who do this for a job. I don't think the pay is very good but these guys get to do what they love for a living. You can learn a lot from them too. Stop slamming them and get to know them. It would make you a better coyote hunter.
 
Originally Posted By: drhartI weighed in on this thread a long time ago and my name came up a couple times since. As I said before, I understand the need to aerial gun coyotes and to have full time trappers/hunters to control them. My only point was that I disagreed with Wyoming adding additional money from the general fund (6 million dollars) to supplement what was already being spent. Our local predator board had the money then to use a helicopter daily. According to an article in the Casper paper, the first year with the additional money, the cost per coyote was $984. If ranchers think that is an acceptable use of all taxpayers money and a reasonable return on investment, I disagree. If they want to raise the money among themselves, more power to them.

There is a difference between sport hunting coyotes, which I do and predator control which the professionals do. I mostly hunt them when the fur is good but if I feel like going out during the summer for a day or two, I do. Maybe that makes me unethical, but it's a free country, it's legal so I don't see the problem. The professional is being paid to kill as many coyotes as he can so I understand that he is going to use an airplane, helicopter, calling, trapping or denning to get the job done. It's whole different set of circumstances and I respect the guys who do this for a job. I don't think the pay is very good but these guys get to do what they love for a living. You can learn a lot from them too. Stop slamming them and get to know them. It would make you a better coyote hunter.

Well said Mr. Hart.
 
i have one saying my grandad said that rings true here
clean out your own backyard before looking over the fence at your neighbors.
if you are not walking the perfect life don't judge others.
denning IS a necessary tool.
people who know how to help control coyotes shouldn't be judged by those who just think with their heart it interfere with logical thinking.
wyocoyoter you are to far left of reality.
coyote calling is a sport for fun, coyote control is a job of necessity.
those of us who think we are helping the ranchers by killing coyotes part of the year are fooling ourselves.
coyotes will refill the areas you take coyotes out of before they young ones are born.
none of us get big enough numbers to really do the job alone.
Mr hart is right we shouldn't be giving extra money and the goverment trappers should be counting future coyotes either.
i do agree the count should be coyotes dead and accurate not black spots as for how many pups she might have.
i told ed steckenhoff about my best year calling his place with a count of 158 coyotes 18 fox and a bobcat, he laughed and said the plane killed 200 in 4 days of flying that winter.
i never knew they flew i called coyotes in every weekend the numbers were not reduced a bit.

 
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cmiddleton, could you exbound on how i am "to far Left of reality" is it that i expect people to pay for goods or services that they receive, i.e. federal or state grass that there livestock eats or is it the fact that some ranchers hypocrasis is mind boggling? not trying to argue would just like an explanation.
 
the reality is without aerial gunning we would have far less deer antelope and big horn sheep.
this year the extra money was spent gunning coyotes on Farris mountains in protection of the bighorn sheep they are transplanting to bolster the existing herd.
it was down to 16 bighorns.
they fly it with helicopters and hit it hard.
i know lots of ranchers who have aerial gunning done and they pay 250 a hour for the Helli or 195 a hr for a plane.
this is their out of pocket.
when they sell calves they pay a tax for predator control tacked on every calf or lamb sold.
they do pay their fair share the rest is a subsidy to keep your grocery bills down same with federal grazing its to control your prices on the receiving end more then the price on the beef its self. it also lowers the price of stock grown on privete land. more stock =lower prices if you take away federal leasing or increased the cost it would show up in your grocery bill.
poor people and third world would suffer.
if i went out and payed 16 million for a cattle ranch then raised 600 cows each cow has one calf every year for 30 years of running cows your cost of that cow would be 17,777.78 each you want a steak to cost 900 bucks?
that is what it would take just to pay for the land then add on operating expenses. that's not counting replenishing the herd or anything but paying for the ranch loan.
nobody could eat beef or lambs wheat oats corn or anything if the government didn't help keep the cost of raising food low.
it helps the poor and working people way more then helping the rancher.
take away grazing and farming there will be a whole lot less people on earth which would be a good thing but i don't think any of us would want to go threw what it would take to get there.
those that think only the ranchers are helped by subsidise have their blinders on.
if ranches and farms fail everyone dies.
land prices are such as there will not be any NEW ranchers so we best keep the ones we have in tact.
hobby ranchers will never feed the masses it takes BIG ranches.
farming and ranching is our worlds life blood so we better start stitching up all the cuts and nurse them back to health or global warming will never even matter.
if all you can think of is they get the grass cheap you are not looking at the whole picture just like the wolf reintroduction folks didn't think things threw to the repercussions it would cause.
just like everything else there is not simple answer its clear as mud so you can't look at one tree and find the answer you must look at the whole forest.federal grazing, arial gunning are just tools to keep food prices down just as c.r.p. keeps the soil and water projects help the wildlife also. it all must work together to produce low cost food.
 
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I think there is more than one that is to far left of reality including Wyocoyoter.

I will expand on this...........

You are right that the days of old are gone. Wake up and plant some food for your family. When the sage grouse come under protection. Keep dreaming there are too many brief cases full of money floating around. Once the wind turbines and drilling is done maybe. You would probably also rather burn oil for light than be able to flip a switch and turn the lights on or push your truck rather than drive it.

To say that ranchers get there pockets lined from missinformed non residents is pretty stereotypical. Not all ranchers want there pockets lined just there land respected. I too have seen what you mentioned about the care of the land. But not on private land that they have permission to be on, again pretty stereotypical.

In your profile it says predator control. Are you serious. Do you really think the ten coyotes you kill a year is predator control? Or is it the calling contests you enter that makes you feel you are controling predators.

So go lick some sewers because your to dumb to work at Mcdonalds................

These two have a better understanding about predator control than most do.
PICT0187-1.jpg


This post was about the feds killing too many coyotes. Many understand that there is more to controling predators than just the weekend callers. It is something that needs to be done. Me I cant wait for the upcoming months so I can go and do some predator control.
 
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dustballs that funny right there, i had to go look to make sure he had predator control on there, if hes calling people names for denning then he might not know the true meaning of control, ha. glad you saw that the dust, being that i'm one of those sleezy people i get a kick out that
 
I think that you guys need to realize why they are flying the planes and shooting the coyotes. Noone is complaining about having more antelope to hunt, and deer to hunt are you. Yes they do kill coyotes, yes it is their job. But like any other job it isn't a job filled with roses and candy either, can you imagine having to crawl under houses and deal with PI$$ed of coons and skunks? I know I wouldn't want to deal with skunks would you.

The GOVT trappers are doing their jobs, it isn't personal and they don't make alot of money either. I told my buddy who is an Govt Trapper about my paycheck the other day and he told me "it would just about take me a month to make that much" so I am more than blessed to have my job and go out on the weekends and hunt some coyotes if I can, with GODS grace I might even get to shoot a bobcat. They are out there risking their lives flying around up there trying to increas our deer and antelope herds.
 
I remember in south western WY when they decided that the mule deer population was getting out of control. It took about five years after for me to even get a chance of shooting a deer when hunting season came around. I was pretty pissed off about the whole situation. In reality maybe a few less deer around helped out the elk and moose population though. I don't know for sure. I just know that I had no control over it and so I try to look at the plus sides if there were any.
 
I just can't leave this one alone. I see that a lot of people commenting on this thread that are not from WY. I understand that the same things are happening where you live also. I also see people that are arguing about what goes on here in Wy that are not from WY. For instance people that say that they are from NM but try to tell people what it is like here. If your not from here don't talk about what it is like here. I also noticed that someone was bashing on another person because they were from PA and they do not what agriculture is like. I know that PA is very huge in agriculture and it is probably bigger there than it is in WY. All I am trying to say is don't talk about stuff that you don't know.

I think a better way to get down the coyote population would be to pay hunters for all coyotes killed. Even if it was $200 a coyote. I would be hunting every chance I got. I enjoy it and it would be a great way to earn some extra cash. It would cost the state a whole lot less money and the hunters would be extremely happy. Everyones happy.
 
cmiddleton did you mistake me for Wyocoyoter earlier? because i never said anything about denning or arial gunning.
and looking back through the thread i can see were the mix up could occur if one did.
 
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