I have built many custom rifles over the years and never tried a Shilen barrel. Finally got one recently and barreled up an action. I stuck a borescope in the bore and just about puked!!! I have never seen this many tooling marks in even the worst factory barrel!!! The purpose of buying an aftermarket custom barrel is to get the best barrel possible...best barrel can mean alot of things, but it should include high accuracy and low fouling. Surprise #2 came at the range...after sight in and a few break in shots it produced a 3 shot group at 200 meters that measured 1/2 of an inch!!! The barrel does copper up pretty bad but it wipes right out with a little Sweets 7.62. I guess you cant judge a barrel on looks alone...If I had this pipe would have went in the trash.
First Shilen barrel, surprised twice.
- Thread starter msinc
- Start date
Tim Neitzke
New member
I've had 2 Shilens and they both shot and cleaned well.
Coyotejunki
Well-known member
I have several Shilens and they all clean up easily. They are Stainless barrels though.
cyotekler
New member
Originally Posted By: atlasmlcmsinc,
Was that barrel Stainless or Chromoly? Did you get it from Shilen direct or did it come from a retailer (like Brownell's or Midway)?
Why does it matter where it came from ? Still not going to change a barrels perforfance...IMO. I don't have a borescope, can not throw the $$$$ at one either. But I do have ONE on my 22-243 Winchester and it cleans very easily and still shoots like a lazer..
Was that barrel Stainless or Chromoly? Did you get it from Shilen direct or did it come from a retailer (like Brownell's or Midway)?
Why does it matter where it came from ? Still not going to change a barrels perforfance...IMO. I don't have a borescope, can not throw the $$$$ at one either. But I do have ONE on my 22-243 Winchester and it cleans very easily and still shoots like a lazer..
Originally Posted By: atlasmlcmsinc,
Was that barrel Stainless or Chromoly? Did you get it from Shilen direct or did it come from a retailer (like Brownell's or Midway)?
It did in fact come from Brownell's. It's a #3 contour chrome-moly barrel and it had a little run out but not bad for a #3. It really does shoot good and I cant get it to walk any in 10 rounds, so the run out to me dont matter. I was just extremely surprized to see so many radial tool marks in the bore. I have never seen a single tool mark in a Pac-Nor or a Lilja or a Hart. I have seen two Remington factory barrels that had very minimal marks and have to say that most Remington barrels actually look better than this barrel. Later model Savage barrels {last 10 years or so} look very good under the scope with several showing zero flaws or tool marks. I have thrown away better looking factory barrels than this, of course they didn't shoot as good as this one though. I really dont know how anyone can say "my barrel cleans easily" that dont own or have access to a borescope. Getting clean patches does not mean the copper is gone. The cold hard simple fact is you just do not know, and the bore is probably streaked with copper because you cannot see it without a scope. If you ever get access to a borescope or own one, clean that rifle as clean as you think you can and then have a look...I guaranty you will be more surprized than I was. I've been there, I used to think my barrels cleaned easy too...until I got the borescope.
Was that barrel Stainless or Chromoly? Did you get it from Shilen direct or did it come from a retailer (like Brownell's or Midway)?
It did in fact come from Brownell's. It's a #3 contour chrome-moly barrel and it had a little run out but not bad for a #3. It really does shoot good and I cant get it to walk any in 10 rounds, so the run out to me dont matter. I was just extremely surprized to see so many radial tool marks in the bore. I have never seen a single tool mark in a Pac-Nor or a Lilja or a Hart. I have seen two Remington factory barrels that had very minimal marks and have to say that most Remington barrels actually look better than this barrel. Later model Savage barrels {last 10 years or so} look very good under the scope with several showing zero flaws or tool marks. I have thrown away better looking factory barrels than this, of course they didn't shoot as good as this one though. I really dont know how anyone can say "my barrel cleans easily" that dont own or have access to a borescope. Getting clean patches does not mean the copper is gone. The cold hard simple fact is you just do not know, and the bore is probably streaked with copper because you cannot see it without a scope. If you ever get access to a borescope or own one, clean that rifle as clean as you think you can and then have a look...I guaranty you will be more surprized than I was. I've been there, I used to think my barrels cleaned easy too...until I got the borescope.
Originally Posted By: msinc It really does shoot good and I cant get it to walk any in 10 rounds, so the run out to me dont matter. I was just extremely surprized to see so many radial tool marks in the bore.
I really dont know how anyone can say "my barrel cleans easily" that dont own or have access to a borescope. Getting clean patches does not mean the copper is gone. The cold hard simple fact is you just do not know, and the bore is probably streaked with copper because you cannot see it without a scope. If you ever get access to a borescope or own one, clean that rifle as clean as you think you can and then have a look...I guaranty you will be more surprized than I was. I've been there, I used to think my barrels cleaned easy too...until I got the borescope.
My main concern on any barrel is accuracy and #2 concern is ease of cleaning. Since I don't have a borescope, I'll just have to rely on the old "clean patch" method, realizing of course that there may be some copper lurking in my barrel.
If it shoots, I can put up with a bit of extra effort come cleaning time. My pet hunting rifle is a Savage .338 WM that shoots consistent 5/8" 5 shot groups @ 100 yds w/most bullets I've tried, yet is a real bear to get the "clean patch" even after firing only one round. It edged out a model 70 .300 WM that cleans like a breeze but won't shoot under 1 3/4" 100 yard groups.
I've shot out a number of premium barrels over 15 years of NRA XTC competitive shooting and most clean easily, all shot better than I can hold w/iron sights from field positions. I usually expect to get 6500 to 7500 rounds out of a barrel. I'm sure a borescope would have revealed some copper in those barrels, especially toward the end of their serviceable life, but some things are just best unknown
.
Regards,
hm
I really dont know how anyone can say "my barrel cleans easily" that dont own or have access to a borescope. Getting clean patches does not mean the copper is gone. The cold hard simple fact is you just do not know, and the bore is probably streaked with copper because you cannot see it without a scope. If you ever get access to a borescope or own one, clean that rifle as clean as you think you can and then have a look...I guaranty you will be more surprized than I was. I've been there, I used to think my barrels cleaned easy too...until I got the borescope.
My main concern on any barrel is accuracy and #2 concern is ease of cleaning. Since I don't have a borescope, I'll just have to rely on the old "clean patch" method, realizing of course that there may be some copper lurking in my barrel.
If it shoots, I can put up with a bit of extra effort come cleaning time. My pet hunting rifle is a Savage .338 WM that shoots consistent 5/8" 5 shot groups @ 100 yds w/most bullets I've tried, yet is a real bear to get the "clean patch" even after firing only one round. It edged out a model 70 .300 WM that cleans like a breeze but won't shoot under 1 3/4" 100 yard groups.
I've shot out a number of premium barrels over 15 years of NRA XTC competitive shooting and most clean easily, all shot better than I can hold w/iron sights from field positions. I usually expect to get 6500 to 7500 rounds out of a barrel. I'm sure a borescope would have revealed some copper in those barrels, especially toward the end of their serviceable life, but some things are just best unknown
Regards,
hm
jim wallace
New member
I have 1 Shilen barrel after around 10 shots it started cleaning up very nice no complants . I have used Spencer barrels , 1 Shilen and i just ordered a new Lilja barrel this morning . Was hoping on a in stock but Dan told me look for at least 12 weeks out .
Originally Posted By: hm1996 My main concern on any barrel is accuracy and #2 concern is ease of cleaning. Since I don't have a borescope, I'll just have to rely on the old "clean patch" method, realizing of course that there may be some copper lurking in my barrel.
If it shoots, I can put up with a bit of extra effort come cleaning time. My pet hunting rifle is a Savage .338 WM that shoots consistent 5/8" 5 shot groups @ 100 yds w/most bullets I've tried, yet is a real bear to get the "clean patch" even after firing only one round. It edged out a model 70 .300 WM that cleans like a breeze but won't shoot under 1 3/4" 100 yard groups.
I've shot out a number of premium barrels over 15 years of NRA XTC competitive shooting and most clean easily, all shot better than I can hold w/iron sights from field positions. I usually expect to get 6500 to 7500 rounds out of a barrel. I'm sure a borescope would have revealed some copper in those barrels, especially toward the end of their serviceable life, but some things are just best unknown
.
Regards,
hm
If you change your mind try WipeOut/PatchOut.
I had not shot my M700 in -06 for a couple of years until I ran it out over the weekend to putz around with some new powders. I had however, run a Hoppes soaked patch followed by dry and then a bit of oil through it every 6 months or so. Always came out clean.
Ran about 20 rounds through it Saturday. Came home, did the Hoppes brush/patch routine until clean (about a half dozen passes). I then ran a patchworm with WipeOut and let it soak for 10 minutes. The next patch came out royal blue. I ran another wet patch though and let it soak over night. Sunday morning I ran another wet patch that came out even darker.
A couple of wet/dry combos later, it was coming out clean. My bet is some of that copper had been in there since 1963.
If it shoots, I can put up with a bit of extra effort come cleaning time. My pet hunting rifle is a Savage .338 WM that shoots consistent 5/8" 5 shot groups @ 100 yds w/most bullets I've tried, yet is a real bear to get the "clean patch" even after firing only one round. It edged out a model 70 .300 WM that cleans like a breeze but won't shoot under 1 3/4" 100 yard groups.
I've shot out a number of premium barrels over 15 years of NRA XTC competitive shooting and most clean easily, all shot better than I can hold w/iron sights from field positions. I usually expect to get 6500 to 7500 rounds out of a barrel. I'm sure a borescope would have revealed some copper in those barrels, especially toward the end of their serviceable life, but some things are just best unknown
Regards,
hm
If you change your mind try WipeOut/PatchOut.
Ran about 20 rounds through it Saturday. Came home, did the Hoppes brush/patch routine until clean (about a half dozen passes). I then ran a patchworm with WipeOut and let it soak for 10 minutes. The next patch came out royal blue. I ran another wet patch though and let it soak over night. Sunday morning I ran another wet patch that came out even darker.
A couple of wet/dry combos later, it was coming out clean. My bet is some of that copper had been in there since 1963.
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Quote:If you change your mind try WipeOut/PatchOut.
They didn't have Wipeout when I was shooting competition. Use it all the time now. Borescope owners claim it leaves copper in bore also, but as previously stated, accuracy is still #1 to ease of cleaning.
By the way, the .338 that fouls after only one shot requires repeated applications of Wipeout to "come clean" also.
Regards,
hm
They didn't have Wipeout when I was shooting competition. Use it all the time now. Borescope owners claim it leaves copper in bore also, but as previously stated, accuracy is still #1 to ease of cleaning.
By the way, the .338 that fouls after only one shot requires repeated applications of Wipeout to "come clean" also.
Regards,
hm
Originally Posted By: hm1996 They didn't have Wipeout when I was shooting competition. Use it all the time now. Borescope owners claim it leaves copper in bore also, but as previously stated, accuracy is still #1 to ease of cleaning.
By the way, the .338 that fouls after only one shot requires repeated applications of Wipeout to "come clean" also.
Regards,
hm
I should have guessed. I "found" it last year and have become a wipeout evangelist. It doesn't seem to do much on powder and carbon, but I was blown away by what it does to copper.
By the way, the .338 that fouls after only one shot requires repeated applications of Wipeout to "come clean" also.
Regards,
hm
I should have guessed. I "found" it last year and have become a wipeout evangelist. It doesn't seem to do much on powder and carbon, but I was blown away by what it does to copper.
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Quote:I "found" it last year and have become a wipeout evangelist. It doesn't seem to do much on powder and carbon, but I was blown away by what it does to copper.
It does a great job, alright. I found that if I run a nylon brush soaked w/Hoppes Benchrest through the bore and let it soak 30 minutes or so, then dry patch that removes the carbon and lets the Wipeout get to the copper much better.
Regards,
hm
It does a great job, alright. I found that if I run a nylon brush soaked w/Hoppes Benchrest through the bore and let it soak 30 minutes or so, then dry patch that removes the carbon and lets the Wipeout get to the copper much better.
Regards,
hm
Originally Posted By: msincI have built many custom rifles over the years and never tried a Shilen barrel. Finally got one recently and barreled up an action. I stuck a borescope in the bore and just about puked!!! I have never seen this many tooling marks in even the worst factory barrel!!! The purpose of buying an aftermarket custom barrel is to get the best barrel possible...best barrel can mean alot of things, but it should include high accuracy and low fouling. Surprise #2 came at the range...after sight in and a few break in shots it produced a 3 shot group at 200 meters that measured 1/2 of an inch!!! The barrel does copper up pretty bad but it wipes right out with a little Sweets 7.62. I guess you cant judge a barrel on looks alone...If I had this pipe would have went in the trash.
Your quote,"the purpose of buying an aftermarket custom barrel is to get the best barrel possible", then why did you buy a non match chrome moly barrel?
You also compared the cheap Shilen Chrome Moly barrel to Lilja and Hart barrels which are match barrels.
You got what you paid for, don't [beeep].
Your quote,"the purpose of buying an aftermarket custom barrel is to get the best barrel possible", then why did you buy a non match chrome moly barrel?
You also compared the cheap Shilen Chrome Moly barrel to Lilja and Hart barrels which are match barrels.
You got what you paid for, don't [beeep].
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: ackleymanOriginally Posted By: msincI have built many custom rifles over the years and never tried a Shilen barrel. Finally got one recently and barreled up an action. I stuck a borescope in the bore and just about puked!!! I have never seen this many tooling marks in even the worst factory barrel!!! The purpose of buying an aftermarket custom barrel is to get the best barrel possible...best barrel can mean alot of things, but it should include high accuracy and low fouling. Surprise #2 came at the range...after sight in and a few break in shots it produced a 3 shot group at 200 meters that measured 1/2 of an inch!!! The barrel does copper up pretty bad but it wipes right out with a little Sweets 7.62. I guess you cant judge a barrel on looks alone...If I had this pipe would have went in the trash.
Your quote,"the purpose of buying an aftermarket custom barrel is to get the best barrel possible", then why did you buy a non match chrome moly barrel?
You also compared the cheap Shilen Chrome Moly barrel to Lilja and Hart barrels which are match barrels.
You got what you paid for, don't [beeep].
Shilen sells their "Seconds" barrels to retail outlets. None of the other makers do.
When you get a Shlen "Select Super match", you get just that - a selected barrel.
When you get a Shilen barrel at Midway, you get the equivalent of a Er Shaw (or maybe not even that good).
The others, like Lilja, Kreiger, etc, don't sell their seconds - if a barrel looks rough or doesn't meet standards, and the stell is good, they bore it out to the next size, or scrap it.
You got what you paid for.
If you are cleaning a barrel properly, and you don't see green after patching and letting it stand for a bit, there is no copper.
Period!! There is chemically, no other possibility.
Your quote,"the purpose of buying an aftermarket custom barrel is to get the best barrel possible", then why did you buy a non match chrome moly barrel?
You also compared the cheap Shilen Chrome Moly barrel to Lilja and Hart barrels which are match barrels.
You got what you paid for, don't [beeep].
Shilen sells their "Seconds" barrels to retail outlets. None of the other makers do.
When you get a Shlen "Select Super match", you get just that - a selected barrel.
When you get a Shilen barrel at Midway, you get the equivalent of a Er Shaw (or maybe not even that good).
The others, like Lilja, Kreiger, etc, don't sell their seconds - if a barrel looks rough or doesn't meet standards, and the stell is good, they bore it out to the next size, or scrap it.
You got what you paid for.
If you are cleaning a barrel properly, and you don't see green after patching and letting it stand for a bit, there is no copper.
Period!! There is chemically, no other possibility.
The reason I asked about the barrel was because Shilen claims to lap all their Stainless barrels. They do not lap the Chromoly ones.
They do sell the ones that air-gauge to tolerances less than the best to the retailers. That doesn't mean the barrels are bad. It just means the preliminary specs are less than what they require for their top-end barrels.
Glad you got one that shoots the way it should. Hopefully the tooling will clean up with more firing and will look a little better.
They do sell the ones that air-gauge to tolerances less than the best to the retailers. That doesn't mean the barrels are bad. It just means the preliminary specs are less than what they require for their top-end barrels.
Glad you got one that shoots the way it should. Hopefully the tooling will clean up with more firing and will look a little better.
Originally Posted By: atlasmlcThe reason I asked about the barrel was because Shilen claims to lap all their Stainless barrels. They do not lap the Chromoly ones.
They do sell the ones that air-gauge to tolerances less than the best to the retailers. That doesn't mean the barrels are bad. It just means the preliminary specs are less than what they require for their top-end barrels.
Glad you got one that shoots the way it should. Hopefully the tooling will clean up with more firing and will look a little better.
Thanks for your reply. I have to say now that I am surprized 3 times...the third being that Shilen makes what sounds like a {1}"best grade select" barrel, a {2}"Shilen" {read average production} barrel and a {3}"cant pass QC barrel that we will sell to a distributor" barrel. The problem for Shilen doing things this way is what happens after somebody buys a barrel and finds out it is really third rate. Myself and the people I discuss this with in the future probably wont be customers of theirs anymore. That's sad because the barrel although it looks bad inside, actually shoots fantastic...but I am not interested in dealing with people that do 3 different levels of quality work. I cant imagine staying in business much longer or keeping you as a customer if I told you your next custom rifle could be built to one of three different quality levels, best, acceptable or unacceptable.
They do sell the ones that air-gauge to tolerances less than the best to the retailers. That doesn't mean the barrels are bad. It just means the preliminary specs are less than what they require for their top-end barrels.
Glad you got one that shoots the way it should. Hopefully the tooling will clean up with more firing and will look a little better.
Thanks for your reply. I have to say now that I am surprized 3 times...the third being that Shilen makes what sounds like a {1}"best grade select" barrel, a {2}"Shilen" {read average production} barrel and a {3}"cant pass QC barrel that we will sell to a distributor" barrel. The problem for Shilen doing things this way is what happens after somebody buys a barrel and finds out it is really third rate. Myself and the people I discuss this with in the future probably wont be customers of theirs anymore. That's sad because the barrel although it looks bad inside, actually shoots fantastic...but I am not interested in dealing with people that do 3 different levels of quality work. I cant imagine staying in business much longer or keeping you as a customer if I told you your next custom rifle could be built to one of three different quality levels, best, acceptable or unacceptable.
"If you are cleaning a barrel properly, and you don't see green after patching and letting it stand for a bit, there is no copper."
How would you know???...you dont have a borescope to check. What you wrote sounds so good that you no doubt have several followers...but unfortunately it is just not true. Been there, done that and still see copper. I have to agree, it dont make alot of sense and prior to owning a borescope I would have been "drinkin' your koolaid" But....not today.
How would you know???...you dont have a borescope to check. What you wrote sounds so good that you no doubt have several followers...but unfortunately it is just not true. Been there, done that and still see copper. I have to agree, it dont make alot of sense and prior to owning a borescope I would have been "drinkin' your koolaid" But....not today.
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: msinc"If you are cleaning a barrel properly, and you don't see green after patching and letting it stand for a bit, there is no copper."
How would you know???...you dont have a borescope to check. What you wrote sounds so good that you no doubt have several followers...but unfortunately it is just not true. Been there, done that and still see copper. I have to agree, it dont make alot of sense and prior to owning a borescope I would have been "drinkin' your koolaid" But....not today.
"... you dont have a borescope to check"
???
I share ownership of a 17" Hawkeye... maybe it's because I don't clean a barrel like you do, so when my patches come out white, there is no copper in the barrel.
How would you know???...you dont have a borescope to check. What you wrote sounds so good that you no doubt have several followers...but unfortunately it is just not true. Been there, done that and still see copper. I have to agree, it dont make alot of sense and prior to owning a borescope I would have been "drinkin' your koolaid" But....not today.
"... you dont have a borescope to check"
???
I share ownership of a 17" Hawkeye... maybe it's because I don't clean a barrel like you do, so when my patches come out white, there is no copper in the barrel.