Fooling a coyotes nose

tripod3

New member
I often see posts about cover scent for coyote hunting. Last night I watched a police dog training clip on tv. In one test the dog had to find where a specific man had sat in a sports stadium during a crowded event. Not only that but it was a day after the event, outdoor after an overnight thunder rain storm. The dog found the correct spot. They told that a person sheds up to 40,000 skin cells per minute, leaving a trail. http://ovsar.org/vocab.html
 
Years ago, fooling a deer's nose was a top priority of mine. Cover scents including real skunk were applied liberally. I sure thought I was fooling them and my wife wouldn't let me near the house. The only one I was fooling was myself.

I actually helped in that film that you refer to and ran a mantrailing bloodhound for their filming and did a bit of consulting. The web page that you refer to is pretty much correct although new scientific research on human scent is being done now by the FBI which may change a few long held theories.

Granted, you can't get any better nose than a bloodhound's nose(estimates are 10X better than any other breed) and I don't know how much better a hounds nose is than a yote, but you are futile to try and fool 'em. I've seen all kinds of breeds do mantrailing (with scent descrimination) with no problems. We actually tried a bunch of cover scents, scent lock clothes, soaps, ect. to fool a nose. They don't work.

I could go into a long post on human scent that would probably be boring to all but, lets just say that you are best to play the wind (and even then you are still gonna get busted at times).

Sparky

"Until you've hunted armed men, all other hunting is trivial."
 
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"Until you've hunted armed men, all other hunting is trivial."



Cant forget about being hunted by armed men, you dont know real "fear" until you have had bullets wizz by your head!
 
My brittany hunting dog and I where out hunting one day, when she went on point on a bird, well come to find out that it was a skunk instead of a bird and it drilled my brittany right in the nose/mouth at about 5 feet away needless to say it stunk so bad. After about 10 min walk back to the truck she locks up on point again and out comes a big ol ringneck pheasant which I got. So I'm pretty sure that skunk scent or cover scent or scent eliminators will not fool a coyote if it can't fool my britt I think that a coyote that lives by his nose will smell you.
 
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I heard it described like this... When you drive by Burger King, you can smell the burger scent being pumped into the street thru the exhaust fans. Your bird dog in the back of the truck can smell the individual ingredients in the mustard!
 
Quote:
Quote:
"Until you've hunted armed men, all other hunting is trivial."



Cant forget about being hunted by armed men, you dont know real "fear" until you have had bullets wizz by your head!



Been there done that both ways and I tend to agree. I also agree that you cant fool a Coyotes nose with scent lock or cover scent. Some think they are because the Coyote doesnt spook when he is down wind. I have seen that happen a few times where they smell you but for whatever reason, they dont care. Coyotes, at times, do strange things.

Sparky, do you make a living with Bloodhounds? I have worked with many different K9 breeds as a veteran law enforcement officer but the bloodhounds are the most incredible breed I have ever seen. Its mindblowing watching them work.
 
WyoSongDog,

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I have seen that happen a few times where they smell you but for whatever reason, they dont care.



A buddy of mine, who showed me the ropes on yote hunting here in the our neck of the woods, insisted on hunting as close to areas saturated by human scent as possible. Human scent to these dogs was nothing unusual and I believe that is one reason why we see 'em downwind with little regard in areas that are semi-rural here in the east.

I do run hounds for LE but I don't make a living at it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

They are amazing. I always get a kick out of the comments of a new guy when he runs with me and realizes that we are trailing a subject who is in a vehicle. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Sparky
 
Thanks for the information Sparky on scent and Bloodhounds! Interesting stuff.

Please do share your thoughts on human scent and how incredible nose of a canine works. It sounds like your very experienced with this and I'd love to hear more. Thanks
 
Tripod3

Interesting topic, and one that has always intrigued me. Thanks for bringing it up.

The coyote has three main lines of defense all plugged into a very paranoid brain. Eyes, ears, and nose. The eyes can very easily be defeated by camoflage clothing or simply sitting still. A remotely placed electronic call can also direct his eyes off of you, thus helping you remain concealed from his eyes. His ears are perhaps his weakest defense and is easily beaten by simply remaining quiet. His hearing is also a main sense we as callers attempt to fool, so it is reasonable to assume this is his weakest defense. Now to the meat of the topic. By far the best line of defense a coyote has is his nose. The coyotes know this and have adapted their behavior in such a way to capitalize on this strength. Most people will never understand the capability of a canines nose without spending much time studying its abilities. It is incomprehensible to most humans that haven't seen what they can do. One of the best analogies I've ever heard is that canines smell in "color" where we smell in "black and white". Another way to better explain this with the color analogy is imagine looking at a flag flying in the wind. Your eyes and brain can see and interpret all the colors at the same time. This is much like how a coyote or other canines interpret scents in the wind. I too have seen coyotes directly down wind and for what ever reason they didn't spook. If I would have been using a "Cover" scent it would be easy to falsly give credit to the "Cover" scent. On other occasions I has been using "cover" scent and even misting and it had no effect what so ever. The coyote quickly discovered something was not right and retreated. When calling coyotes and they head for the downwind side they are huffing in any indicator they can huff and are analizing it at a phenominal rate (ever see coon dogs track a coon on the run). His ability to analize scents as they come available takes practically no time at all. It is instantaneous. There has been lots of talk lately about the "Misting" technique. Proponents of this technique are quick to explain it is not a "cover" scent. They also state that its primary benefit is to confuse a coyote long enough for a standing shot while he is directly "downwind" of your position. My contention with this method is that there is no way of knowing that a coyote will stop to analize these odors, and if he does it will give you any length of time necessary for a shot. Let me be clear. I'VE USED THE MISTING TECHNIQUE AND HAVE SEEN IT WORK SOMETIMES. I'M ALSO VERY OPEN MINDED TO ANY NEW OR OLD METHOD THAT WILL INCREASE MY ODDS. Now back to the topic. Cover scents are very unreliable and most experts agree futile when concerning coyotes. So what do you do to beat this defense. You simply do your best to deny him the ability to even use this defense. Try and choose your setups to where when he tries to use this defense he is exposed. Remember what his other defenses were? Eyes and ears. Remeber how easily we can defeat those? When he exposes himself in an effort to use his nose give him a sharp WHOOOF!!! or if he is close enough give him a soft lip squeek. This short abrupt sound will make him stop where he can hone in on its origin with his eyes and ears. This method of stoping him can be also be utilized to stop him at the best suitable position for a shot as well, without regard, or concern, of what the wind is doing. He will only pause for a few moments to try and get conformation and then likely continue downwind where you are at the mercy of a defense that is almost impossible to beat. What is my point? Deny him the ability to use his nose or force him to expose himself to capitalize on this defense and you have drastically increased your odds. This is not that difficult to do. Your the boss. You control the situation by choosing the set up with these factors in mind. You typically have 360 degree's to work with and only about 20 degrees or so is contaminated with your scent stream (You also need to consider your trail in to your set up. If he crosses it he will often time spook). So to play the wind in your favor this basically gives you 340 degree's or so to work with. Knowing full well the coyote has a tendacy to work towards this 20 degrees, use it to your advantage and kill him if he tries. This in my opinion is much better than relying on attempts at beating his nose or attempts at confusing it.

Remember, coyotes don't always go to your downwind. This is a myth. Coyotes don't always do anything.

Sparky,

I would be grateful if you could share more infromation on the ability of the canines nose.

Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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Wow, now I'm especially clad I never worry about scent control. Seems it aint gonna matter anyway. I was about to start lookin into scent eleminatin, but now, nope not even gonna worry about it. I'll just do what I been trying to do, fool there ears and shoot em before they can use thier nose, if I see em.

t/c223encore.
 
Curious about "Misting" an attractant. Not a cover scent, but an attractant, like bird or bunny scent. Anyone ever done that? ... with sucess?
 
No one will ever "trick" a coyote's nose... if a beagle at our airports can smell a 1/16 of an ounce of cocaine that has been rapped in cellophane, put in a balloon, and then shoved up someone's... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif well you know where this is going. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I use scent control clothing, spray scent elimination "earth" scented spray all over me, use "earth" scent wafers, and use fox urine on my boot bottoms. I still get busted... use the wind to your advantage and you can have a LOT more encounters with Mr. Coyote. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Mr. Bob on the other hand could care less about human scent. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
Just for clarification, beagles are very seldom used as a drug dog, they are used to see if any food items are being brought back into the country (i.e. fruits, veggies, and meat items.)

Most bird dogs are excellent drug dogs, but only the labs and shepards seem to have the personality for it.

Dogs are amazing when they work a trail. I have done a little training, and I am always amazed at what a dog can pick up.

There has been a documented case of a bloodhound sniffing a small girls trail for 3 miles. This was while she was in a vehicle and it was 7 days old. Amazing.
 
It's obvious there is more to learn. This sure makes me wonder what those coyotes that come within feet of me when calling are thinking. The uneducated hunger or curiosty overides the best sense, placing them in great danger. Foolish moves during mating season at least have an excuse.
 
I have read all the posts about not being able to fool a coyote's nose, but I will share a technique that has worked for me time and time again. When using an electronic caller and decoys, I spray all of them with scent killer first. Then I put coyote scent out by the caller, sometimes red fox scent, and put the scent of the prey species by the decoy. I sit up at a point higher than where the caller and decoys are, and watch upwind, downwind, and all around. My theory is that if the coyote hears something authentic, smells what he is hearing, and sees what he is hearing and smelling, you have challenged all his senses effectively. It is a bit of trouble, but I think it works as evidenced by the number of alpha males and females I have killed. This routine resulted in the 54 lb. male and 45 lb. female I posted in Photo Gallery and in another big pair a week after that. I compare it to crow hunting in the fact that you can put out an electronic caller with the best sounding crow and owl fight going, and when they come, if they don't see anything to support all that racket, they leave. On the other hand, if they see the owl or hawk and a crippled crow decoy, they go get their buddies and you can shoot until your barrel is hot, providing you are hiding well on their approach routes.
 
Encore.204, Lockport area.

Good post Byron!

The following information, is common knowlege to handlers with mantrailing K9s. Most K9s can be used to mantrail and most can be used as for scent descrimination, some better than others. Scent descrimination just means that the K9 is not only trailing human scent but, specific human scent. Human scent is much like DNA and probably contains some of the various DNA acids. Even identical twins have been proven to have their own "scent." Your scent is specific to you and I have run hounds on adults using hair from their first baby haircut. Not much different to a trained K9 than fingerprints to a trained CSI officer. Can a coyote scent descriminate? I would bet he could. I'm betting he can smell me and my buddy when we are hunting together.

Trailing K9s are different than tracking K9s. Tracking K9s are trained to follow footsteps on grass. They are actually smelling and keying on the crushed vegetation from walking. Just like you smell your lawn after mowing. Trailing K9s are following the scent trail left be a person they are trailing. Depending on weather conditions, age of the trail, ect. they may be well off the actual trail that that person walked. Human scent and it's migration has been demonstrated using smoke bombs. It's easy to see the drift of the smoke in the wind and it's collection on vegetation. I prefer to think of human scent like leaves in the fall of the year, drifting in the wind and collecting on vegetation, curbing, buildings, ect. Also swirling and gathering in a breeze around buildings, rocks, trees.

Man vs Dog
It's been estimated that a human has approx. 5 million olfactory sensory cells compaired to a German Shephard which has 220 million. I don't know what a coyote (or fox) has but I would guess that it would be close.

Human scent
Human scent can be found in anything that you come in contact with, any body fluids, secretions and gases. The following has been a long held theory as to what a K9 is scenting when they recognize human scent, the FBI is currently doing more scientific studies and the results may differ when they are completed. It's known that a human sheds "skin rafts" at a rate of 40,000/minute. These skin rafts are microscopic, are dead or dying cells and usually are 1 to 4 cells in size. In addition to these cells or rafts, they are inhabited by bacteria. It's believed that when these bacteria break down the cells, the gas that is released, is what K9s key on. Other fluids (sweat) or gases (breath) also provide human scent detection. Recently, it was discovered that the human body has a natural airflow caused by heat rising, much like a chimney. Starting at the feet and ending at the head, natural airflow causes thse rafts to be spewed out of the collar area in clothing. Rafts can also escape through clothing but this air flow is the main transmission of skin rafts. These rafts will rise to a height of approx. 1.5 above your head and flow down, like a fountain. They are then acted upon by the prevailing wind and carried. Keep in mind that the airflow around your body may at times be enough to carry rafts upwind in a slight breeze. When a human stays in an area, he creates a scent pool. A large, intense area of scent and this pool will grow in size dependng on how long a person stays in one place. Because a K9 is using the gases produced by the bacteria breaking down skin cells, temperature and humidity plays a large part in human scent detection by K9s. Hot (above 90), dry weather inhibits this bacterial breakdown. Cool, damp weather is actually the best for bacteria. A dog having probelms in the heat of the afternoon will many times work better the next morning when it's cool and damp. Rain doesn't "wash away" your scent, just the opposite. If anyone is interested in further reading, check out "Scent and the Scenting Dog" by Syrotuck.

How long does human scent last? It depends on the weather and how long it takes for that organic matter to break down. I have had bloodhounds run trails over one week old. There are documented cases of hounds running trails much older than that. We have also used collected scent materal from an individual that was frozen for 11 years.

So what can we do to eliminate human scent? The only way to eliminate would be to completely cover with a non-permiable suit. We would also need to filter breathing air, remember breath? Other than that, the common rules of hunters apply. Use the wind, don't let them get downwind. I like to hunt areas saturated by human scent if possible, I would rather hunt near highways or working farms then deep woods.

Keep in mind that none of this is cast in stone. I have had animals respond to calls directly downwind with reckless abandon. Go figure. That to me, keeps it interesting.

Sparky
 


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