I'm going to agree with Chilson, 650's are a little rough for foxes, although i do use them for coyotes. for grey's and red's i always use my victor 1.75, they are more than big enough and i haven't lost one yet. i was loosing coyotes earlier in the season, but it was due to pan tension (thanks again Chilson for your advise). i stick with my duke #3 which i have 4 coiled for coyotes with a 4-5 pound pan tension. i also inherited some Montgomery dogless #4's which are just killer traps for coyotes, but aren't made anymore.