? for all the shotgunners.

I am telling this story just because I think it's Funny and not because I am a shooting Guru or anything.

I have a friend that was having problems shooting Trap. He bought new guns (not the cheap ones $8000 to $14000 ones) trying to improve. He went to the Eye Dr got glasses had Lasiks (sp) done you name it he tried it. I would shoot his Gun and tell him nothings wrong with the Gun. I did start telling him I though he had an eye Dominance problem and how to possibly correct it. He shined me on as friends do.

Early this spring the Trap Club invited Phil Kiner down to put on a siminar. It cost my friend $500 for Phil Kiner to tell him that he had an Eye Dominance problem. Mr. Kiner took a Magic Marker and blacked out his beads and now he shots great.
 
Funny how everyone can tell you exactly how to shoot...which is good to remember if you ever get lost in the woods. Fire your gun and say "how did I miss that bird?"....17 people will step out from behind their tree and tell you what you did wrong, then you just ask one of them "which way to the truck?"
 
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Funny how everyone can tell you exactly how to shoot...which is good to remember if you ever get lost in the woods. Fire your gun and say "how did I miss that bird?"....17 people will step out from behind their tree and tell you what you did wrong, then you just ask one of them "which way to the truck?"



Now that is some of the most helpful information I've read in this post. I'm gonna remember that in case I get lost sometime. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Guys, this may not make a hill of beans in your responses but. I have never shot at anything thrown from a machine or by hand with a shotgun nor do I wish too. I brought up the "professional" Trap shooter's comment to illustrate the point that someone who makes or augments their living using a shotgun said I had a problem. I know nothing about shotguns(only a slight exaggeration) and couldn't tell you the difference in "Trap" and "Skeet" or any other competition done with a shotgun.

This shotgun is a bone stock Browning Invector BPS. It will be used ONLY for coyote's and maybe a turkey every 10 years(again, only a slight exaggeration). And have absolutely zero interest in shooting any birds or anything that is supposed to emulate a bird.

The only thing I have used a shotgun for until this year was for Dove hunting, and I was the guy that would shoot 25 shells and come home with one bird(Not an exaggeration at all) so I assume that my misses were due to shooting too high due to too high of a cheek weld? I have missed coyote's as well and was just told about my poor technique the other day by someone who knows far more about shotguns than I.

Does this info change your response at all or does it even matter?

Thanks
Chupa
 
Does this info change your response at all or does it even matter?

Yes it did change my response. For some reason I thought you wanted to get your shotgun to shoot where you wanted it to shoot. I also assumed that since you were shooting a shotgun that you were at times going to shoot at something that was moving. My new response is put some sort of a red dot type sight on your shotgun and only shoot at turkeys and coyotes that are standing still. With this setup you might want to use some shooting sticks.
 
Aiming at still or very slow moving targets is a must. First you need to get a stock that fits you. If you will never go shoot any small fast moving targets or animals you don't need to practice shooting them. Unless you wish you could. I think shooting moving targets is much more fun than turkey hunting because when I pull the trigger more times than not there is going to be a dead bird. Bird hunting there are many more shots and more chances to miss = more fun. Beads are for the person shooting at a specific place. Such as the head of a coyote or head of a turkey. When shooting a moving target use your sights for reference as you don't need to be as specific and because you don't have the time to be picky its shoot and miss or don't shoot. You should get away from useing the beads after shooting many times. Most important is getting a gun that fits you. You need to find someone doesn't need to be an instrustor just a good shot with moving and stationary targets. Become friends maybe they could use some pionters with a rifle. Kind of a trade. Go threw many stocks if need be. This is when spending the money on a benelli is better than most. You have adjustable comb and pull length. Super Black Eagle II or the Super Nova pump are good choices. Both handle 3 1/2" mags. I have Nova pump and fits me except when wearing clothes in 15 degree weather i can't mount very fast.
 
If your not interested in becoming a good wingshooter, then you are pretty much using your shotgun as you would a rifle and aiming at a stationary target. In that case, I would opt for a red-dot sight of some kind. Just FYI I have rambled a few comments below.

Skeetlee and TrapShooter12 have some good pointers for you here. I would suggest you find yourself a good coach to work with you. We can only speculate on your problems but you need help in realtime to get some fast progress. The learning curve is much shorter and your less likely to become frustrated and give up. I would start with the game of trap since it is somewhat easier for the beginner.

Shotguns are designed to be specific to the task. In other words, a trap gun is setup to be used on the trap course where the you will normally see alot of rib and some space between the two beads. They are not meant to be sights but will show you that you have the gun mounted straight. POI is normally high to help you with the fast rising targets.

A sporting clays gun has very nearly the same amount of drop or comb height as a field gun, and will have a slightly higher POI than a field gun. The beads are usually stacked in what looks like a figure 8 to give you a 60% pattern above the front bead and 40% below the bead. This is done to help you keep sight of the targets that may fall below your muzzle bead.

Field guns normally are setup so your looking level with the top of the rib. This should get you a 50-50 pattern above and below the front bead.

If you are very used to your shotgun, you could learn to get by with a field or sporting clays gun for trap, and many shooters do just that. If you want to be competitive, get the specialized gun for the game and a good coach. There are many other reasons for missed targets than just comb height, and a coach can help you with those too.
 
I shoot a shotgun more than I do anything else but its hard to say what your doing wrong.The thing that I still catch myself doing and is the main reason I miss birds is that I sometimes forget to lead through.You cant stop swinging the barrel before you squeeze the trigger or you'll shoot behind the critter you're shootin at most of the time.I might be preachin to the quire about that deal but just in case you did'nt know I thought I'd mention that.If a pheasant,quail or dove is flying directly away from me or straight towards me its a goner.If its flying across from me its got about a 65% chance of living.All because its hard for me to remember to lead through.Which might be what your doing too its hard to say though.Im sure you would know if you were doing that so Im not saying thats what you are doing but maybe you are doing it without realizing it is all Im sayin. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Anyway the best thing I know for you to do is go shoot some clay pigeons or better yet real pigeons and you'll get better at hittin targets that are flying.Which will make hitting targets that are running a peice of cake. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Chupa,
For shotgunning coyotes you still need to be able to handle those quick movers in brush. As well as those coyotes that check up and are standing stationary. Find a gun that fits! Gun fit is still vitally important. Take your UNLOADED gun (check to make sure it is unloaded - three times!) into a fairly large room and pick something out in the room, a figure in a painting, light switch, door knob, ect. Stare a hole in whatever you choose to look at with the gun at "ready position" in your hands across your chest with the very end of the barrel just in your vision in front of you. Close your eyes and snap the gun into shooting position with your eyes closed. After the gun is up solidly, open your eyes. You should be looking down the rib, not seeing any of it, with the bead just standing out there at the end of the barrel alone - and pretty darned close to that thing you were staring at before you closed your eyes. Relaxing and doing this about ten times should tell you if the gun really does point where you are looking. That is the key to hitting movers, a gun that fits and consistently good form, bringing the gun to the face (not the other way around), solid cheek weld on the stock, ect.

For standing still targets you will actually be aiming the shotgun like a rifle. The bead is the front sight and the back of the rib/receiver is the rear sight. You draw a sight picture the same as if you were shooting an open sighted rifle. Just like open sights where you need to consistently place the bead/blade in the same relationship to the rear sight notch, you do the same with the bead and rear of the rib/receiver being careful to not see rib under the bead or to squeeze down so tight you shoot low by looking over the bead. It is all about gun fit and consistency of shooting form. A gun that fits makes all this easy and learning to be consistent with your shooting form allows this to become natural movements done without actually thinking about it.

It would seem that you aren't "IN TO" shotguns and haven't really used them a lot. Becoming familiar with a gun through hundreds/thousands of repetitions while using solid and consistent form is the key to becoming good with the gun. Joining a local trap/skeet/sporting clays club might pay off big in the field for you.
 
I appreciate it fella's. The range I shoot at during the week offers lessons and I believe they have a fitter on staff. Like I said, No real interest in shooting anything out of the air, but if it will make more proficient all around with the shotgun....Then I think some lessons and a fitting are in my future.


Thanks again

Chupa
 
I dont know that i have ever had a student that couldnt hit a still target with a shotgun. If you are having that kind of trouble it has to be a bad fit issue or your pulling your head in anticipation of recoil. Hard to tell without seeing whats up. What ever you do though get one coach or trusted person to help you out. Lee
 
CHUPS, to mirror the advice above, find a shtogun that 'fits'. Above all, its the most important part of the equation...

When you finally do, pattern it to see if it throws true down the rib. If it doesn't, change ammo and/or choke until you find one that patterns where the guns actually points. This helps much with the "hitting what you are shooting at" part... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Finally, get away from the 'rifle shooter' mentality. You don't need to be aiming a shotgun, just shoulder it, focus on your target and shoot! I've seen plenty of guys try to 'aim' the bead on a running bunny, flushing grouse or decoyed waterfowl. Chances are that if you are trying to 'aim' a shotgun, you already missed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

If your gun fits right, your sight picture will be straight down the rib.

If it patterns true, then the payload of shot will be evenly dispersed in that area.

Therefore, when you shoulder the gun correctly (and repeatably), whatever you are now looking at in your sight picture (down the rib) will be dying when you squeeze the trigger... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Once you get that part down, then you can figure your lead for different targets and adjust accordingly. Thats where the Benelli comes in handy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
skeet/knockemdown,
Plenty of people miss stationary targets with a shotgun. Tight chokes, small targets, and close/intermediate ranges require you aim that shotgun on a stationary target. Ask any experienced turkey hunter if he has ever missed a close range gobbler.
 
I suppose your right GC, but the gun would really have to be a bad fit for this to become a problem. Every once in a while, while the juices are flowing, Ya Ive been there. Just sounds to me like it is a fit issue though. Hard to tell from here. Thanks Lee
 
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I appreciate it fella's. The range I shoot at during the week offers lessons and I believe they have a fitter on staff. Like I said, No real interest in shooting anything out of the air, but if it will make more proficient all around with the shotgun....Then I think some lessons and a fitting are in my future.


Thanks again

Chupa



...not much more can be said in addition to what has been already...

The only think I can think of is to just get a case of clays ($10 at Wallmart), a case of shells, a $20 hand trap and a buddy to pull tha string. Next, go out and... miss as many clays as you will. Then, at some point you'll start to connect. Dunno how or why, but it just starts to happen at some point. There's no better instructor than a case of shells (I read that somewhere-best shotgunning advice I ever got)

For this reason I'd hold off on the lessons, they can get pricy fast, buy more cases of shells instead--it'll be a fraction of that money and the end result is the same...
 
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skeet/knockemdown,
Plenty of people miss stationary targets with a shotgun. Tight chokes, small targets, and close/intermediate ranges require you aim that shotgun on a stationary target. Ask any experienced turkey hunter if he has ever missed a close range gobbler.




True enough GC!
That's why I put an Aimpoint on my SBE for turkey season and have my pattern zeroed dead center on the dot @ 20yds /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Luckily I've never missed one close, but I've only been turkey hunting for 15years, so I'm not as experienced as you old fellers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I do keep the Aimpoint on for night predator hunts during deer season or where rifles are not allowed...

I should have clarifed above that I was referring to more traditional shotgunning, where shots are at small fleeting targets like gamebirds, waterfowl and small, furry & tasty critters. In that capacity, the Aimpoint comes off and I'm lookin' right down the rib and slingin' lead... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Old fellers!!! Young whippersnapper upstarts... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
If you want some easy and cheap practice for what you are shooting, get some balloons and blow them up. Find a place where you can put a fellow with the balloons behind a projectile proof barricade and have him release them one at a time in a high velocity cross wind. If you can do this over a plowed field, you can see approximately where you shot is going relative to the balloon. It helps to have a spotter standing behind you so you can make corrections, especially if you aren't shooting over a plowed, or crop free field.

A 20 - 30 mph cross wind can make for some interesting targets.
 
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