Fun question for opinions 7.62x39

C

Chupathingy

New member
So we all are aware of the success of the AK-47 as a "Battle Weapon" but we also are all aware that it is not particularly accurate. There is some belief that the inaccuracy of the AK is due to short distance from sight to sight.

So here is the question:

Is the inaccuracy of the AK due to a design flaw of the "Weapon"?

Is the inaccuracy of the AK a combination of a design flaw and an inherently inaccurate round(7.62x39)

Is the 7.62x39 an inherently Accurate round who's accuracy is hampered by a being predominantely used in an inaccurate platform?

Would the 7.62x39 perform better if used in a more accurate platform(AR-15)? Disregard Magazine issues.

Is it a combination of all of the above?

I'm just sitting here with to much time on my hands and can't go hunting(watching 5 yr old), what say you?


Chupa
 
To answer your ?'s

I don't know. What I do know is .....

I miss RUDY's !
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Happy New Year Jay ! It anit far off now.

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I would say yes, it is due to the sights. The Israeli's took the AK 47 and changed the sights to a rear peep sight and called it the Galil. And they were known, I believe to be much more accurate. I have seen Handi rifles in 7.62x39 that were just as accurate as any other handi rifle (which isn't saying much!)

http://www.ak-47.us/Israel.php
 
Originally Posted By: MPFDI would say yes, it is due to the sights. The Israeli's took the AK 47 and changed the sights to a rear peep sight and called it the Galil. And they were known, I believe to be much more accurate.

http://www.ak-47.us/Israel.php



This is where the question came from/popped into my mind
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Also the Valmet RK62. But I still want opinions from ya'll, we have real world experience here that trumps magazine articles and documentaries.



Chupa
 
personally I dont have a ton of experience with the round as I just got a mini 30 Tactical a few months ago and havent got around to seeing what it can really do.

But I would think that no cartride is inherently innaccurate. I believe that far too much of its accuracy is determined by the platform in which its fired from.

Look at all of the different rifles out today, and take one of each all chambered in lets say .223. The accuracy would vary based on the actual rifle. Then let say bolt vs auto vs single, then all sorts of other things like stocks etc

For example the mini 14 (dont start fighting now!) it takes an "accurate" cartride puts it in a poorly designed rifle and makes that chambering look like poo!

The ak was not designed as a precision weapon, more as a weapon that was reliable, easy to maintain and use. with accuracy good enough to hit a man sized target at a specified distance.

so, due to mass production and fairly cheap materials it basically is given a handi cap as well.
If you would take that design, tighten it up, with good materials etc, im sure it would shoot real nice, but at the cost of what? reliability, ease of takedown?

I think some folks that shoot it in say the cz bolt guns may have more to add, sounds like they shoot very well.

some say the same about the 30-30, but shoot it out an old win 94, then out of a nice 788 bolt, i think it would be night and day as far as accuracy goes

Im done rambling now, as im starting to not make sense even to myself
 
Chupa, I cant speak for any 7.62x39 except for my little CZ 527M CARBINE. With handloads using Lapua brass a 123 gr hornady sp and a max load of reloader#7 It will print 5 shots in one ragged hole at 50 yds, and just a shade over an inch at 100 yds. That may not be match accurate, but for a carbine length sporter I have been impressed. tbird
 
I have heard of a few people that have had great accuracy out of custom guns with the 7.62X39. There is also a company somewhere here is AZ that produces pretty expensive AK's that are supposed to be MOA or better. I think there are two large problems facing this round. 1.) everyone uses [beeep] communist surplus ammo, 2.) everyone uses [beeep] communist surplus guns. The tolerances on an AK are pretty large by comparison to other rifle, which is part of the reason they run with mud in them. Also I believe most of the recievers are stamped, which means they will have more flex then if they were milled stainless.
 
About 15 years ago I had a interarms mini mauser in bolt in 7.62x39. With speer 125 gr. softpoints it was a 3/4" at 100 yards. This was with a 4x leupold on it. I let a couple of teenagers use it to shoot their first deer. Both were lease than 100 yard shots. Both droped with one shot. Also the 7.62x39 is the parent case for the 220 rus. Which is the parent case for the 22, and 6 ppc's. So I don't think it's the case it self more likly the rifles.
 
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Originally Posted By: dogmessiah There is also a company somewhere here is AZ that produces pretty expensive AK's that are supposed to be MOA or better. I think there are two large problems facing this round. 1.) everyone uses [beeep] communist surplus ammo, 2.) everyone uses [beeep] communist surplus guns. Also I believe most of the recievers are stamped, which means they will have more flex then if they were milled stainless.


Now this is the type of stuff I'm interested in hearing. More please....


Chupa
 
Yep. If you get the chance, take one (AK) apart and compare to one of those fine rifles you posted pics. of the other day. It should be obvious.
Kind of like comparing a Blacksmith (pounding out horseshoes) to something like scottmilk turns out down there at his shop.(Billet Lowers)
 
Originally Posted By: kal52

For example the mini 14 (dont start fighting now!) it takes an "accurate" cartride puts it in a poorly designed rifle and makes that chambering look like poo!







Good point, was waiting for someone to bring that one up.


No more thoughts or opinions? Or has it all been said?


Chupa
 
I figure the AK is designed the same as an SKS. Built to fire regardless of what garbage it's been sitting in or if it's ever been in the same room as a cleaning kit. So it works, just never works well. There's nothing wrong with the round that loading it in a better rifle won't fix.

This is of course excluding every AK/SKS owned by every mall ninja, all those are sub-moa from what I've read.
 
Originally Posted By: NdIndy

This is of course excluding every AK/SKS owned by every mall ninja, all those are sub-moa from what I've read.


HaHaHa!!! Ain't it the truth
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Chupa
 
MOBG maybe.. at least the one I own or other few I have shot. One however was better than the others 8", maybe a little better at 100yrds.
 
Every Norinco sks i have seen with a well fitting stock has shot two to three inch groups at one hundred yards (granted ive only seen four), where as ak-47s and cheaper skss seem to fire significantly worse, so i would have to say its because the guns were designed to throw lead, not hit dimes.... and, NdIndy, as for ak 47s being the same as skss, its sort of true, but, as far as mil surp rifles are concerned, ak 47s are generally built a lot sloppier than skss, and typically jam more often and shoot worse
 
The Ruger bolt actions were in a 308 bore. Not a 311 like the ak, and sks's. So you could use all the light wieght 30 bullets in them I don't know if the mini-30 were like this or not.
 
The sight radius is not a problem as you can mount a scope on them
with little change in accuracy. Having a gas tube pushing on the barrel is
a problem. Having a gas piston and the weight it ads to the carrier is a
problem. Having a crapco trigger group in most of them is a problem.
Having combloc barrels, some chrome, some shot out are problems. Having
a lock time measurable in seconds is a big problem as is having all the
carrier mass flying back and forth in a pretty flimsy receiver. And lastly is
all the garbage ammo getting put through them. Most I have shot have
been in the 5 moa range with cheap ammo, 3 moa with brass cased handloads. I have one that holds 3 moa with the cheap stuff. They are
the simplest most reliable battle weapon ever made. The sks shoots about
the same but never was able to fire full auto as it's original design intended.
I think it finally saw some battle with the N Koreans but no other time.
If you've never had a folder around the house or in the car you just can't
understand the firepower in such a small package.
The case itself is the base for several benchrest cartridges and the
6.5 grendel. So it isn't a problem either.
 
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