going to saw off a 22 rifle

I was a FFL holder for almost 20 years. Like the others stated the SN dictates if the weapon is a rifle or handgun. Cutting the barrel below 16 inchs is a Federal Offense and will cost you serious time in prison and a big fine. You can however cut the barrel under 16 inchs and pay the 200.00 Transfer fee and register the weapon with the ATF as a class 3 . I quess what i am trying to say is leave the rifle as is and go buy yourself a 22 pistol. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
DITTO what Catshooter stated........

T/C Encore or Contender

1. Buy a new T/C Encore or Contender as a "rifle" and put a pistol grip and barrel less than 16" on it (or anything non-conforming to the federal regulations definition of rifle). You will go to jail.

2. However, buy a new T/C Encore or Contender as a "handgun". Then you can legally put a buttstock AND barrel 16" or longer and you will be using a legal "rifle". Take buttstock off, put a barrel less than 16" on it, and you have you legal "pistol" again.


NOTE: This is NOT intended to be an unqualified, exhaustive, complete example.

My suggestion => save for the revolver/pistol/rifle/shotgun you want and carry what you have until then. Be careful to do everything in a legal manner.
 
Rifles with barrels shorter than 16" must be registered as SBR's (short barreled rifles) with the Feds.

Ar's, TC's, etc. converted to pistols must have the frame or lower receiver registered as a pistol to begin with.

Frames and receivers registered as pistols can be converted to rifles and then back to pistols , but not the other way around.

Make sure you check all federal regulations.
 
I am LEO, catshooter nailed it.

This sounds odd, BUT I am not being funny here.

"Never try to apply logic to Law" the phrase "Letter of the Law" is accurate. Why, when, where, how, the law is written, mean nothing nor does intent, if the "letter" says "black is white" it is.
CD
 
Because a rifle aint a handgun??? When is the last time you dealt with the Feds? BATF are not nice people.
They talked Randy Weaver into cutting down a shotgun(1/4inch too short) in order to get a hold over him to force him to be a snitch.
They killed family members and pets, they prosecuted him and then settled a lawsuit and PAID him over 3 million, because the feds were wrong.
The further away from and the less I have to deal with BATF the better.
Carl
 
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Ar's, TC's, etc. converted to pistols must have the frame or lower receiver registered as a pistol to begin with.

Frames and receivers registered as pistols can be converted to rifles and then back to pistols , but not the other way around.

Make sure you check all federal regulations.




my question again, why can't you register it as a handgun? The AR lower doesn't start out as a pistol. and its original use was as a lower for a rifle. but somewhere along the line someone made one in to a handgun.
 
when you make an AR-15 handgun
you have to start out with a blank frame
because it has never been regestered (as a rifle or a pistol) it leaves the factory as " a frame" (not yet a rifle or a pistol)
then when you buy it you have to fill out the extra handgun section of the paperwork (back round check)to then make it a "pistol frame" (if this is not filled out then it can not be made into a handgun, it is "a rifle frame")
then it in turn has to be made into a handgun, BEFORE it is made or changed into a rifle
thats also how they get the 10/22 pistols (blank frames)
that is also why the AR-15 pistol is so popular, it's the same length as a Short Barreled Rifle (minus the CAR stock)and with out the added $200 class III taxes and paper work.
i even put a laminated copy of the transfer paper work with my ar pistols, so if there is ever a question i have the proof of it being a pistol.
just don't do it, it's not worth the trouble
also- i don't make the laws, so don't as me WHY
have fun Todd

THIS SUBJECT SHOULD BE DELETED, BEFORE SOMEONE OF POWER SEE'S IT
 
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Ar's, TC's, etc. converted to pistols must have the frame or lower receiver registered as a pistol to begin with.

Frames and receivers registered as pistols can be converted to rifles and then back to pistols, but not the other way around.

Make sure you check all federal regulations.




my question again, why can't you register it as a handgun? The AR lower doesn't start out as a pistol. and its original use was as a lower for a rifle. but somewhere along the line someone made one in to a handgun.



I has to START its life as a pistol. The registration of the receiver was done at the time the firearm was made. The BATF only cares about the receiver and if it started life as a rifle it cannot be changed into a 'pistol' only a 'short barreled rifle'. SBRs require that the $200 tax stamp be paid on them and it can take the BATFE quite a while to determine if you are worthy enough to possess such a fearsome device.

When the paperwork for the AR15 pistols was written up it was classified as a pistol right off the bat. It can be changed into a rifle configuration by changing the stock and such, but the receiver itself is still classed as a 'pistol' receiver. There are no regs on the max length of a pistol, so if you throw a buttstock on it and a rifle upper by law the receiver is still a 'pistol', it's just wearing rifle accessories.

The way I look at it...
Even doing something that would REMOTELY get the BATFEs attention is bad juju. They are still pretty big on the whole 'conspiracy to commit' a crime thing as well. They have ruined numerous lives with their 'rulings' and mistakes. Browse the net a bit, read about the Weavers and Waco and things like that and find out what they are really like.
The really scary part is that, in effect, you have already trodded into dangerous ground by just saying that you are thinking about cutting down a rifle into a configuration that violates the regs. That falls into their view of 'conspiracy to commit'.

I would just get a .22lr pistol and use that. An expensive 10-20 year trip to Club Fed would be bad.

All the information you could ever need about this kind if stuff can be found at http://www.atf.gov. You can call your local ATF office as well and have them further define what can and cannot be done to a firearm.
 
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Sheesh..!!

Running a trap line from a federal prison cell can be very difficult.

To avoid that possibility, save up your money for awhile and buy a legally manufactured revolver from a licensed FFL dealer. Then you can enjoy what you are doing without worrying about black helicopters follwing you on your trap line. And you'll likley be able to hit what you point the revolver at with a little bit of practice.

I have a friend who is a teacher, and he often uses the phrase, "Sixteen will get you twenty". In our sport, a hacksaw and a firearm can get you more than twenty if you match the two up. It's simply not worth even thinking about doing it......

-BCB



Excellent advise. Why in the world would you not just go out and purchase a decent Ruger MarkII or a Browning Buckmark and be done with it. The cost of the gun and mods (not including a whole list of federal charges) couldn't even be close.
 
The original poster hasn't posted again...........

Reckon what they've done with him already...... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
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my question again, why can't you register it as a handgun? The AR lower doesn't start out as a pistol. and its original use was as a lower for a rifle. but somewhere along the line someone made one in to a handgun.



And the answer AGAIN, is that you CAN, but you must register it BEFORE you cut it or shorten it, or put a short upper on it, and wait for the BATFE to send you the paper work - THEN you cut or shorten it.

If you shorten it first, then try to register it, you LOOSE! And loosing with the BATFE really sucks the big one!!!

.
 
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I think a rifle cut down to a pistol is legal as a pistol isn't it? I don't remember the details,



if it was manufactured and serial number registered as a rifle, it's always a rifle. you can cut it down and call it a rifle. the BATF considers it a "Small Barrelled Rifle" and requires registration according to the NFA laws. which may or may not be allowed depending on the state you live in, not sure if it would require the same $200.00 tax as other Class III guns or only a $5.00 fee as an AOW (All Other Weapons)
 
I'm not going to saw off a rifle barrel. Dang! ...all that work over a trapline gun. A couple of pelts isn't worth going to jail over. I guess I'll wait a year to legally buy a pistol. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (not 20 until July)
 
Just keep in mine that cutting that barrel back shorter than 16 inches may land you in federal prison. If your a young guy you'll be very popular there.

Being as you ask this question and have access to the internet and a computer why don't you ask your question to the BATF. They have a website and will give you the straight dope and you will know exactly what you can and cannot do.

Here is the web address: www.atf.treas.gov
 
Welcome to the board Bart. Buying a chipmunk rifle or waiting until you are 21 for a handgun is a really good idea!
 
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