Goodbye to Marlin
- Thread starter FALFire
- Start date
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
My biggest worry is that if they don't turn things around fast enough, they will just say screw it and shut the doors. I've not heard anything about Marlin being in financial trouble, has anyone else?
Marlin is just down the road from me... and they have inches from falling apart for many years.
And I knew people that worked for Winchester - a good friend was head of the custom shop - they had racks and racks of prime AAA+ exhibition grade Burl and crotch walnut stock blanks that were worth $1,000 to $2,500 each, in raw wood form - they had literally $500,000 worth of blanks, and they couldn't hire any custom stock makers because of the unions.
When they had an order for a custom gun with fine wood, the customer would come to Winchester, pick the blank, and the barreled action and blank was shipped to one of the many independent stock makers around the country. But the catch was... you couldn't have a factory design stock.
I wanted a Featherweight style stock in exhibition AAA+ Crotch, but Winchester couldn't run the blank on the stock making machines inside the plant - even if it was finished outside the plant.
I'm not anti worker, but that kinda union crap is killing America.
And you can't run a company that way...
.
My biggest worry is that if they don't turn things around fast enough, they will just say screw it and shut the doors. I've not heard anything about Marlin being in financial trouble, has anyone else?
Marlin is just down the road from me... and they have inches from falling apart for many years.
And I knew people that worked for Winchester - a good friend was head of the custom shop - they had racks and racks of prime AAA+ exhibition grade Burl and crotch walnut stock blanks that were worth $1,000 to $2,500 each, in raw wood form - they had literally $500,000 worth of blanks, and they couldn't hire any custom stock makers because of the unions.
When they had an order for a custom gun with fine wood, the customer would come to Winchester, pick the blank, and the barreled action and blank was shipped to one of the many independent stock makers around the country. But the catch was... you couldn't have a factory design stock.
I wanted a Featherweight style stock in exhibition AAA+ Crotch, but Winchester couldn't run the blank on the stock making machines inside the plant - even if it was finished outside the plant.
I'm not anti worker, but that kinda union crap is killing America.
And you can't run a company that way...
.
blinddog
New member
Why is it that any time we see anything changing in the industry we right off think it will be bad? Is it because so many times it has been? I don't know any thing about this cerebrus company. It is a pure investment group I guess they own a lot of companies in differant areas of manufacturing. When Bangor Punta owned S&W, they production began going down hill, then they sold out to the Clinton anti gun conspiracy. But then as we gun owners made our displeasure with S&W known, the profit margin dropped so Bangor Punta sold the company, and fortunatly for us American shooters and American Business bought it Safete Hammer bought S&W and since the production quality has come back to classic levels and they are reintroducing old models as well as coming out with new ones. So Change is not always bad. I try to take a wait and see attatude, After all my money can be spent of other brands if Marlin or Remington starts going down hill or betrays me and the rest of America
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
Why is it that any time we see anything changing in the industry we right off think it will be bad?
Good point - I saw the bone color case hardened S&W's and flipped out - they are a better company than before Bangor Punta.
.
Why is it that any time we see anything changing in the industry we right off think it will be bad?
Good point - I saw the bone color case hardened S&W's and flipped out - they are a better company than before Bangor Punta.
.
so its the unions that ruined the company????
were not their products while made in the plant good quality and made by craftsman?
maybe they just wanna make a little more
money by so-called being forced out of business by high labor costs.
it is always interesting to me how some companies hire these ceo hitman to step in for a few years and redesign a financial plan then they resign and get a 10 million dollar bonus,i guess the companies really arent hurting after all.
if ya can't build quality you won't be around long-period.
ya can't really explain greed
were not their products while made in the plant good quality and made by craftsman?
maybe they just wanna make a little more
money by so-called being forced out of business by high labor costs.
it is always interesting to me how some companies hire these ceo hitman to step in for a few years and redesign a financial plan then they resign and get a 10 million dollar bonus,i guess the companies really arent hurting after all.
if ya can't build quality you won't be around long-period.
ya can't really explain greed
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
so its the unions that ruined the company????
were not their products while made in the plant good quality and made by craftsman?
maybe they just wanna make a little more
money by so-called being forced out of business by high labor costs.
it is always interesting to me how some companies hire these ceo hitman to step in for a few years and redesign a financial plan then they resign and get a 10 million dollar bonus,i guess the companies really arent hurting after all.
if ya can't build quality you won't be around long-period.
ya can't really explain greed
Don't even go there unless you know what you are talking about... which you don't.
And no, there were a number of hack employees that weren't "craftsman" that were there because the T&D union forced their hiring, and it was impossible to get rid of them. A lot of them came from Hamilton Aircraft, which shut down completely - they didn't move.
These workers from Hamilton had no interest in firearms - it was just a place to go, cuz the union sent them there. I knew some of them, and they weren't fit to work on a kids wagon. They had been making propellers all their lives, and had no interest in learning anything else - they were just waiting out the clock until retirement.
The union crippled Winchester, and they didn't give a crap as they saw the company going under. They saw Winchester as a fat cow... and a staging company for other labor problems in the state - it was their "Waterloo" and they lost.
The union was sure that it was a fake, until the bottom dropped out and the bank loans and salaries couldn't be payed.. then the union was willing to make a "deal" but it was too late. No financing was available, cuz contracts were defaulted on.
The Tool & Die makers union tried to bluff, and got caught with their weenies in a door jam, and most of them lost their homes and jobs, cuz there were no new jobs to be had in a state that was loosing manufacturing jobs left and right.
The T&D union tried to run the company, and froze it into the ground with archaic hiring rules that were patronage, anti competitive, and 50 years out of date.
The T&D was trying to force Winchester to retrain laid off aircraft industry workers to be gunmakers and gunsmiths... it was NOT Winchester's responsibility or their ability, to retrain workers from other failed industries.
In the end, the T&D lost, and so did all of their members.
In N. Carolina, they won't have those problems.
Maybe they can get down to making guns.
.
so its the unions that ruined the company????
were not their products while made in the plant good quality and made by craftsman?
maybe they just wanna make a little more
money by so-called being forced out of business by high labor costs.
it is always interesting to me how some companies hire these ceo hitman to step in for a few years and redesign a financial plan then they resign and get a 10 million dollar bonus,i guess the companies really arent hurting after all.
if ya can't build quality you won't be around long-period.
ya can't really explain greed
Don't even go there unless you know what you are talking about... which you don't.
And no, there were a number of hack employees that weren't "craftsman" that were there because the T&D union forced their hiring, and it was impossible to get rid of them. A lot of them came from Hamilton Aircraft, which shut down completely - they didn't move.
These workers from Hamilton had no interest in firearms - it was just a place to go, cuz the union sent them there. I knew some of them, and they weren't fit to work on a kids wagon. They had been making propellers all their lives, and had no interest in learning anything else - they were just waiting out the clock until retirement.
The union crippled Winchester, and they didn't give a crap as they saw the company going under. They saw Winchester as a fat cow... and a staging company for other labor problems in the state - it was their "Waterloo" and they lost.
The union was sure that it was a fake, until the bottom dropped out and the bank loans and salaries couldn't be payed.. then the union was willing to make a "deal" but it was too late. No financing was available, cuz contracts were defaulted on.
The Tool & Die makers union tried to bluff, and got caught with their weenies in a door jam, and most of them lost their homes and jobs, cuz there were no new jobs to be had in a state that was loosing manufacturing jobs left and right.
The T&D union tried to run the company, and froze it into the ground with archaic hiring rules that were patronage, anti competitive, and 50 years out of date.
The T&D was trying to force Winchester to retrain laid off aircraft industry workers to be gunmakers and gunsmiths... it was NOT Winchester's responsibility or their ability, to retrain workers from other failed industries.
In the end, the T&D lost, and so did all of their members.
In N. Carolina, they won't have those problems.
Maybe they can get down to making guns.
.
wrongtarget
New member
Basically saw the same thing when I was working union (my ONLY trial at that!) for a trucking co. and the Teamsters were only interested in any $$'s they could force the company to give THEM (not necessarily the workers). I got out cuz I messed up my back and not only did the Co. screw me, the union did too cuz there was no profit in it for them - told me which lawyer they would recommend, and held a hearing (what a joke!) for 3 month's worth of dues when the Co. made me go in the office on lite duty and drop my union card. Meanwhile, I'm on drugs to be able to sleep with the pain and still can't walk right in while I was in my 20's! The pay then was outrageously high for the work we were doing (those who actually worked). The screwing off and the outright destruction of Co. property was insane - many didn't cared if the Co. actually made money so they could pay us money. Now that Co. is one of TWO that has survived where there were dozens of LTL's, and the guys I used to work with are not making that much anymore versus other common semi-skilled labor - the unions blown it's load. And non-union co's seem to be thriving there too. People need to understand economics, and realize that a co. must profit to continue, and to pay you and me. Unions once had a place, but over a hundred plus years, they have soiled their own beds badly, and now must live with it - by & large, they no longer serve the needs they were created for. Let's not even talk about all of MY hard-earned money that went to mobsters!!!!!!! Or the huge gov't waste due to the forcing of rate/union labor for gov't work. Sad but true, when i see union made, i tend to look elsewhere, I feel it's that much of a scam anymore.
RePete
New member
Quote:
Thank you, Cat Shooter.
Despite all of the romantic notions about tradition, etc... companies are in business to turn a profit. If you can not do that, you do not stay in business. You can not turn a profit for any length of time if you do not have a product that people will buy.
People do not buy businesses the size of Remington for a right-off come tax time. They will try to turn a profit by providing a product that we will buy.
Well put...I agree with CatShooter on this one.
Recently (post Cerbus) Remington has released the 17FB, an instant hit. Released their version of the AR-15. I know nothing about black rifles but I do know they need all of the good press (and support) from big buisness they can get. And the improvements in the SPS seems to be very good. You hardly ever haer anyone complain about them. What I hear is "great price and accuracy, but the stock is junk". Now where have I heard that before??
Time will tell???
Thank you, Cat Shooter.
Despite all of the romantic notions about tradition, etc... companies are in business to turn a profit. If you can not do that, you do not stay in business. You can not turn a profit for any length of time if you do not have a product that people will buy.
People do not buy businesses the size of Remington for a right-off come tax time. They will try to turn a profit by providing a product that we will buy.
Well put...I agree with CatShooter on this one.
Recently (post Cerbus) Remington has released the 17FB, an instant hit. Released their version of the AR-15. I know nothing about black rifles but I do know they need all of the good press (and support) from big buisness they can get. And the improvements in the SPS seems to be very good. You hardly ever haer anyone complain about them. What I hear is "great price and accuracy, but the stock is junk". Now where have I heard that before??
Time will tell???
I can see both sides.
I can see it to be easier for one BIG company to kill a lot of little ones. I can see one BIG company saving a bunch of little ones.
BUT, I hope the competition remains, If they are owned by one BIG overlord, will Marlin try as hard to stay on the market? will remington try as hard to gain back all the ground they have lost in quality?
I gotta go get me a Marlin lever action 22, I love those things.
Carl
I can see it to be easier for one BIG company to kill a lot of little ones. I can see one BIG company saving a bunch of little ones.
BUT, I hope the competition remains, If they are owned by one BIG overlord, will Marlin try as hard to stay on the market? will remington try as hard to gain back all the ground they have lost in quality?
I gotta go get me a Marlin lever action 22, I love those things.
Carl
Dave Allen
New member
What I hear is "great price and accuracy, but the stock is junk". Now where have I heard that before??
Time will tell???
i know where you heard that before..it's everywhere..i agree time will tell..as i shop for rifle's..& handle a plastic-pot metal action type of rifle..i'm constantly reminded of how well they shoot..sometime's by folk's i believe i can trust via face to face..& also by report's of folk's i believe i can trust here..yet..i am growing to despise..flimsy..cheesey stock's..i'm growing tired of how something feel's like "crap" to me..yet everyone's telling me it's not..i just needed to express a few thought's i'm sorry to get off track on the "marlin" subject..
Time will tell???
i know where you heard that before..it's everywhere..i agree time will tell..as i shop for rifle's..& handle a plastic-pot metal action type of rifle..i'm constantly reminded of how well they shoot..sometime's by folk's i believe i can trust via face to face..& also by report's of folk's i believe i can trust here..yet..i am growing to despise..flimsy..cheesey stock's..i'm growing tired of how something feel's like "crap" to me..yet everyone's telling me it's not..i just needed to express a few thought's i'm sorry to get off track on the "marlin" subject..
Last edited:
Byron South
New member
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Marlin to go away.
I've got my opionion of unions but I've decided to keep them to myself.
Byron
I've got my opionion of unions but I've decided to keep them to myself.
Byron
Last edited:
knockemdown
New member
Byron,
After experiencing the "labor union" phenomenon (fiasco)firsthand, I can honestly say that you have hit that nail squarely on the head!
Nowadays, it seems that labor unions have evolved into the parasite of the business world...using both the corporation and employees as cash cows for its own financial benefit. The ideal of a labor union to protecting it's members has long ago gone by the wayside...
After experiencing the "labor union" phenomenon (fiasco)firsthand, I can honestly say that you have hit that nail squarely on the head!
Nowadays, it seems that labor unions have evolved into the parasite of the business world...using both the corporation and employees as cash cows for its own financial benefit. The ideal of a labor union to protecting it's members has long ago gone by the wayside...
Time will tell where Marlin's headed. They do indeed own a good percentage of the rimfire market. There last bolt action centerfire was the MR7. Also they have a good deal of the lever market.
It will be interesting. I for one would fold up shop up north and head for greener pastures down south. No reason to stick around where the anti's are rooted up.
It will be interesting. I for one would fold up shop up north and head for greener pastures down south. No reason to stick around where the anti's are rooted up.
In 1981 USRAC was formed and had a license agreement to product Winchester rifles and it was an employee run company USRAC also purchased the New Haven plant. After bankruptcy in 1989 FN purchased USRAC and operated USRAC till it closed and ended the license agreement. Winchester again entered into a license agreement with Browning 2006 to product Winchester rifles, Browning is owned by FN which has a planet in SC where the new Winchester rifles will be made.
I'm sure FN looked at the cost of producing the Browning rifle etc vs Winchester and just pulled the plug on USRAC. I really cann't say if it was the union or WSM lawsuit or combination of both that caused the closing but I'm sure the lawyers looked at it pretty close.
I'm sure FN looked at the cost of producing the Browning rifle etc vs Winchester and just pulled the plug on USRAC. I really cann't say if it was the union or WSM lawsuit or combination of both that caused the closing but I'm sure the lawyers looked at it pretty close.