grizz bear

2

223shooter

New member
i was asked by a friend of mine to join him on a hunt in alaska for grizzly bears. i have a 300 ultra mag is it big enough??? the trip won't be until november, but i thought i could get some opions now. if i have to go bigger how much bigger because if i get something like a 458 win. mag i would just end up selling it after the hunt because i would have no use for it.

i also read an mag. about this guy who made a .358 umt. dose anyone know anything about this round?? from what i read i could also go from shooting 225 grain for grizz to 180 for black bear and deer?? when i hunt deer i like to save as much meat as i can but i also like to carry the biggest gun i can fill my bill with.

so should i save up over the summer and build a 358 UMT??? or will the 300 ultra mag do the job because the last thing i wanna do is get a big ol bear mad at me
 
Originally posted by 223shooter:
[qb] when i hunt deer i like to save as much meat as i can but i also like to carry the biggest gun i can fill my bill with.

so should i save up over the summer and build a 358 UMT??? or will the 300 ultra mag do the job because the last thing i wanna do is get a big ol bear mad at me[/qb]
Click to expand...
Well, since I agree whole heartedly with the last statement I tend to lean towards the biggest hole I can shoot well. That tends to be something in the 338-06, 35 Whelen, 45/70, or 450 Marlin class.
 
223shooter.Tim here...........I don't know what loads u can get, but a good quality bullet,ie;Nosler, Barns x,ect....Will work just fine.My buddy went to Russia 2 years ago for brown bear. He used a .300win.mag 180gr. Nosler partion. Worked well he said. Your 300 ultra should work just fine ........Tim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif P.s .If not make sure you run faster than your guide!!!!don't worry about the bear! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
223Shooter~!

The 300 Ultra mag you have will do the job if your hunting Grizz Bear. I would however down load the case somewhat and keep my velocity at 2700fps with a 220 grain preimum bullet or at 2600fps with the Barnes "Original bullet" in the 250 grain weight.

I used a 220 grain bullet in my 300 Winny back in the 70's and it did a good job on bear. However if you are speaking of stopping a CHARGE from any bear at close range 30 yards in, I would advise you to get yourself a .458 Winchester magnum and load it up with a 450 grain Barnes X bullet. Your only going to get ONE SHOT at that distance! Unless you want and can afford a double gun. :eek:
 
First off I'm going to answer your question...

I wouldn't hesitate to use the .300 UM. If you are very comfortable using it.

Now I'm going to ask you one (if you don't mind me being nosey, that is)...

You said...
so should i save up over the summer and build a 358 UMT???
Click to expand...
If you need to save up to build this rifle, how do you plan on paying for a guide? Or is your friend a guide?

Now I'll tell you about what you are goig up against...

I once was backing a friend who was shooting a 338 Win Mag on a brown bear hunt. He hit it twice with the 338 once through a shoulder and once through the lungs. It took us better than a day to recover that bear. It was over a mile from where it was shot piled up in the middle of a stream.

The moral of the story? Be ready for anything and dont stop shooting until your bear stops moving. His hide is going to be a lot easier to sew up than yours. AW
 
I could be mistaken, and maybe one of you will know for sure, but as I recall it, when Remington sent the 300 RUM out into the field, the first hunt it went on and the first head of game taken was an Alaskan grizzly. On Kodiak Island, I think.
 
223shooter,

Hey, man that sounds like a great time. Late summer/fall of 1998 I worked for an outfitter up there in Alaska. Spent a month and a half on the south end of Kodiak Island. The bay was called Olga Bay. Then spent another month and a half about 80 or so miles east, southeast of Cordova, on the Tsiu River. Will you be hunting the interior Griz or the big coastal grizz. The coastals are bigger but either way they are both large. I just delt with the Coastal Giants when I was up there. You will be fine with the .300 Ultra. The late Jack Oconnor killed the big browns with the .270 winchester. It can be done. When I was up there,the caliber of choice was in .338, be it the Winchester Mag or the .340 Weatherby Mag. After personaly seeing one of these Bruins at close range (15 yards) I would be compelled to go with a hevier caliber .338, 358, .375 or .416. If you stick with your .300 shoot either the X-bullet, Trophy Bonded bear claw, or Nosler partition. When I was up there I shot the .375 H&H Mag with 270 grain barnes X bullet. After seeing these animals,how fast they are and how hard they can be to anchor. I would compare them to an A1Abrim Tank with Fur. If a charge were to ever come your way, unless you hit him in the brain or in the spine they will take an incredible amount of lead, bit from a .300 Mag up to the .458 Mag. All the Guides in our Camp shot the .416 Remington Mag. Well I will stop blabering. Have a great time. AIM SMALL MISS SMALL

MIVB
 
Originally posted by Stu Farish:
[qb]I could be mistaken, and maybe one of you will know for sure, but as I recall it, when Remington sent the 300 RUM out into the field, the first hunt it went on and the first head of game taken was an Alaskan grizzly. On Kodiak Island, I think.[/qb]
Click to expand...
As I recall it, someone from S&W (Wesson I believe) took the then new 357mag revolver and popped a moose with it.
 
I do remember a fellow who was a gun rag for several magazines and he was using one of the new 300 mag types. Only they ran across this medium size Grizz Bear and decided to take it on this particular hunt.

Now it showed the bear being hit with the first shot, however the fellow who shot the bear had the magazine loaded up with 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. That bear was shown hit and then all hell broke lose, the camera stoped shooting and the next thing you saw was them all taking pictures around the bear with smiles on their faces. The writer's name was none other than Larry Weishuhn who is now shooting editor of
"Shooting Times Magazine" and TV host for Hunting The World.

Now at the end of the show, they tell you what type of rifle and caliber gun used, along with what type of bullets. Needless to say there was a lot of mail sent into the show and several forums also had a long discussion on why this happened in the first place.

Back in the 1940 and 50's most big game hunters used the renound Old Soldier the 30-06 for their hunting needs with the 220 grain Winchester factory Silver Tip bullet as bullet of choice back then. Many a big bear was taken with this same setup. Not until the mid-1960's did the 300 Winchester magnum make itself known to hunters. Most of the big guides in Alaska then, used the .375H&H as their backup rifle for the big bears.

I had the opportunity to view what was to be the NEW Pope & Young Grizzly Bear record with a bow. The first arrow sailed clean over the bears back,
the second arrow was a perfect hit, however the bear did charge after being hit and the bowman quickly sent another arrow into the bears front chest, not slowing it down one step.

The alert guide who was doing the filming had to drop the camera and get his gun off his back to shoot the charging grizz bear with his .375H&H. Thus saving both their lives and spoiling any new Grizzly Bear record (The Grizz was shot in the head) for that year. The guide and hunter survived the incident, thanks to the quick action of the man with the .375H&H backup rifle loaded with 300 grain premium bullets.
 
223Shooter, PREPARE FOR THE WORST, AND HOPE FOR THE BEST!! You seem to be aware that your .300 will kill a griz with a good shot, at a good distance, with favorable conditions. What are your odds in this being your senario? Unpredictable, as we all know! You are the man that must have the confidence in your gun, ability, and brass. Anyone here that will tell you your caliber is fine, will be home on the puter while your possibly a life or death situation... to skimp on stopping power on an animal that will KILL YOU, seems foolish. No disrespect to any Griz Guides, but I'd not trust my life to anyones' shooting, in a backup situation. My life on such a hunt, is my own responsibility! I'll tell you a situation that happened to me, as it may illustrate my point with a much smaller, less dangerous, animal. I was hunting local caribou, (no Migration) on a high rim, and jumped a huge bedded bull at 60 yards. I fired my .300 win and it fell motionless in its tracks. I paused for a moment to survey the situation, no movement, my confidence, with my gun, made me secure. I started to close the distance to my bou, I had walked 30 yards or so, when all at once it jumps up, (now with one antler) and is bearing down in my direction, and I have nowhere to go but stand my ground and shoot. I fired dead center of the chest, at about 40 yards, and it's still comming. I jack my last, and hit it again, where it lands at 7 yards from my feet. After I reloaded...lol I examined my bou. 1st shot hit horn and knocked the bou out cold. 2nd shot right up the center, perfect. 3rd shot took out shoulder, at angle through center of chest. This bou was a fraction of a griz, was not mad, just fleeing! Had it been a mad griz, you would have missed out on this story for sure!
Good luck to you, on your hunt of a lifetime! Be smart, get home safe, Ridge
 
Use a good bullet and place your shot where it counts and you will do just fine they have killed those bears with less gun then the one your going to use for years just remember no matter what caliber you use if you shoot the bear in the ass he will probably take a bite out of yours. sandman
 
That must have been one tough caribou!!!!I killed 2 with a .243win. 1 at 100yards, 1 at 200 yards, dropped them where they stood! I saw guys wound them with a .300 win. It's all shot placemant. Bears are overated,223shooter; learn too shoot that .300ultra well and you'll be fine! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif ...Tim
 
223shooter...Tim again,if you want a gun for charging bear ...Can you say 12ga pump with slugs!!! Can't get much bigger hole than that! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I do have some knowledge of bears and I would NEVER tell someone to use a 12 gauge shotgun with
"SLUGS" unless they were those by Jim Gates in Florida....The Termanator Slug which dose give ample penetration to and through the vitals.
Most slugs don't do this and it would be like hitting that bear in the body with a 12 pound Sledge Hammer. You might break some ribs but that bear would be on top of you in a Jack Rabbit minute, having you as an appetizer. Most guides carry the 375H&H or .458 Win mag. Bolt Guns.
 
Nah Tim, Not a tough caribou at all, Adrenaline is some good stuff, I hear that those under rated grizzlies can be loaded with it too....lol
 
The 45/70 with Beartooth bullets would do, however the 444 I would pass on.

The 450 I do believe with the right bullet you would be in good shape, in the same catagory as the 45/70 really. It is just that I would rather bet my life on an action that is less prone to problems in tuff weather and conditions.
I'll stay with my model 70 Winchester in a .458 mag. with 450 grain Barnes XLC bullet. Chances are your only going to get ONE SHOT~!!!
 
I've talked too many bear guides.Some of them like a 12 gauge for a back up gun!!!Mine carried a 30-06 when he was guideing for grizz. I wasn't telling 223shooter too hunt with one . Just talking back up. A monster mag caliber rifle is best, but if A person can't handle it well.What good is it ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Tim........It seems like things go in circles, or change and change back again after the grass is found NOT to be as tasty, on the other side of the fence so to speak.

As I said earliar in another post, most bear hunters used a 30-06 with a 220 grain factory Winchester Silver tip bullet. I still have some of the very old advertising Winchester did back in those days on TIN. A picture of the hunter using his rifle with Silver Tip Bullets and the big bear around the turn.

The guides then used a 30-06 stuff with those 220 bullets also. You had to be a successful Outfitter to afford a model 70 Winchester in a .375 H&H caliber back then. Most guides working for the Outfitter, didn't have or just couldn't afford the big dollars, it took to buy one.

Then some Gun Rag, wrote and article because he saw a young guide carrying a 12 gauge pump shotgun while looking out for some fishermen trying their best at catching a large trout. Next thing you know, that was the weapon for ALL guides to carry along the rivers........However the PRO's like the fellow I got to know (Greatest Bear Hunter of modern day I suppose) told me to get myself a .375 H&H if I were going to hunt these Big Bear Critters. I did take that Old mans advice to heart.

Now this Old man was old and tall and had more wrinkles than a forest has trees. He must of been at least in his 50's I figured back then as I recall. Well he lived another decade or two after that little talk he gave me and was still hunting bears with the same .375 H&H at the age of 70. His very old rifle had groves wore in the pistol grip from his fingers while using it over the many years in Alaska. He finally died about 3 or 4 years ago.

Things back then changed once again because someone gave a guide his Almighty .458 Winchester Magnum after a successful hunt and be darned if another article wasn't put out as to the weapon of choice by ALL guides on the rivers.

I will tell you this much OK.......I have been face to face with a couple of bears in my hay day and had my bacon saved by some very good and perhaps lucky at the time marksmen. I believe that anybody hunting big bears or little bears, should carry as much gun as they can get their hands on period. Nowing how to shoot the weapon is of course by all means top priority. If you can't you have NO BUSINESS there in the first place.
I am a guy who takes any bear real serious! :eek:
 
Originally posted by Tonk:
[qb]The 45/70 with Beartooth bullets would do, however the 444 I would pass on.

The 450 I do believe with the right bullet you would be in good shape, in the same catagory as the 45/70 really. It is just that I would rather bet my life on an action that is less prone to problems in tuff weather and conditions.
I'll stay with my model 70 Winchester in a .458 mag. with 450 grain Barnes XLC bullet. Chances are your only going to get ONE SHOT~!!![/qb]
Click to expand...
Don't understand the reservations on the 444, 320gr at 2000+ looked good to me. :shrug:

Haven't had any problems with lever guns in crap weather (anchoring the deer with old 30-30 rounds was a family problem for a bit) in my family. Not that 5 or 6 people makes a very extensive sample.

My PERSONAL thought is use the action you use the most. I'd screw up any follow up shots with a bolt gun. I have 3 choices for comfort in use - revolver, single shot, and pump - in that order of comfort.
 
Back
Top