Grouping @ 300m with M16?

I'd be surprised if any basic training M16 will shoot sub MOA. Remembering when I went through basic we had a night fire session where we got to rip through a half dozen magazines on full-auto just as fast as we wanted to. The M16A1 will empty a magazine pretty quick with one trigger pull. Of course nobody could touch their barrels afterwards.

I'm sure the throats were just a wee bit eroded on those rifles. If there was even a throat left.
 
I think that is a major reason most issue M16s are no longer capable of full auto fire. A 3 shot burst is the full auto limit for most, as it should be. After 3 shots nobody can still be on target.

Jack
 
Ask him which sear is he using.

The M16A2 and A4 the army is using has the 3 shot burst. It's significant in that, It give the rifle in effect 3 different trigger pulls. 2 of them aren't bad, but the 3 one is usually trash. That third one throws most groups in the wind. People just aren't used to it.

As to the differences between the AR and the M16. There are several components added to the M16 as well as a different bolt carrier to allow for the full auto fire.

As a result of the Gun Control act of 1986, they also have a different shape to the receiver to prevent the easy conversion of the AR's.
 
A friend of mine does exceptionally well on PDs out to 300 yds
with a Bushmaster(223) when the wind isn't blowing. OTOH, when the Army wanted my son to do some 300+ yds shooting when he was sent to Irag, they issued him an M14 before he left!
According to some Marines and my son (Army) the M4 has jamming problems (hereditary no doubt), but the bullets reach 300 meters.
Apparently there is the official line: The M4, 5.56mm, has an effective range of 300 meters. As soon as you leave basic,
there is the infantryman's line: Good for short range, need to protect it from the elements or it jams up tighter than a clam.
 
Quote:
When I was in (is it already 30 years ago?) the only time that you fired for a group was at 25 meters to sight in. (You didn't see very meeny groups under a .5" even then.) After that you were firing at silhouette's hooked up to a computer system that recorded your hits and dropped the target if/when you hit it.

When he gets home from basic take him to the range and tell him to put his money were his mouth is, 3 groups at 300 yards, if he can't do it he coughs up $100.00 for each group over .5". If he can do it you pay him $100.00 for each group .5' or smaller. It'll be the easiest $300.00 you ever made.



Even if you made the same deal at 100 yards, open sights, .5" group...etc; you would still be money ahead. Let us know how he likes his crow.

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One thing that may be causing some confusion is that alot of the Qualification's are not shot at "pop up" downrange feedback targets. The Army qualifies on "paper targets" at 25M or 15M; scaled acordingly. As an active duty soldier I have never been fond of this system but that's another topic all its own.

Your son may not be BS'ing you at least not in his mind especially since you say he's never shot before and may not know the difference between shooting at a scaled 300m torso at 25m and at a torso target at a true 300m.

Furthermore, the downrange feedback "pop-up" up targets are so full of holes that there would be no way of knowing where you hit short of a brand new target and a walk downrange which is simply not allowed on any firing line I have ever been on. Maybe range control people or some kind of detail, police-call but that's about it and certainly not during BRM with a lot of new soldiers.

Now the paper targets in particular your zeroing target you triangulate and lable in order to adjust your shot group. A 1/2 three shot group there is entirly possible, but even would still be a "tight group" for your average basic training soldier.

He may not be BS'ing you, he might just not know the difference between a 300m "Scaled target" and a true 300M target. Other than that what the others said is true and not even members of the President's 100 shoot that well.

God bless him and keep him safe.

Blaze
 
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