Guess the brand/scope box test

We did a little bit of scope comparing yesterday evening. Nothing highly technical,just myself and Seth Skinner AKA Skinnerworldchamp and some guy we met at the range.
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looking at scopes back and forth comparing eye relief and how clear and bright they looked while looking at some yellow and orange targets at 100 yards.
Here were the scopes we looked at:

(2) Clearidge 2.5-12.5X42 mm XP5
Sightron SII Big Sky 3-12X42mm
Zeiss Conquest 3-10X40mm
Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10X40mm
Trijicon 3-9X40mm
Kahles 3-10X50mm

The innocent bystander did not get to look at the Kahles because I forgot I had it in my bag non-mounted on a gun.
I will post the order that the other guy thought was best to his eye. I wish he would have seen the Kahles for reasons explained later.

His order of preference
Zeiss
Trijicon
Clearidge/Bushnell tie
Sightron Big Sky


My order:
Kahles
Zeiss
Trijicon
Clearidge
Sightron
Bushnell


Seth and I wrote down our order of preference then compared notes.
We differed slightly he liked the Zeiss 1st then Kahles then Trijicon Clearridge Bushnell Sightron.
If that other guy had looked at Kahles he could have broken the tie. Maybe it was the fact it had 50mm but it was the winner to my eye especially as it got dusk.
The Sightron had the worst eyebox/eye relief which we all agreed on.
 
With it being made in Japan, price and mag range, it fell where I thought it would ( Bushnell) in the glass department.

Cannot find a lot of info about the scope or images for reticle.
 
I reran my Clearidge on a bigger scale test to check tracking.

Shot a target dot then ran it up 10MOA bullet impacted 11.5 inches high.
Ran the windage 10MOA right and bullet impacted 11.5 inches right.
Ran the windage back 20 MOA and the bullet impacted 12.5 inches left.
Then ran scope back to Zero and I had to shoot twice because the first shot hit in the bull but right in the hole my 6.5CM made and we were not sure so I shot again and hit the edge of the target dot.

So the good news is that with all that moving up and down it returned right back to zero. The clicks on mine seem to be moving .2875 per click instead of .262. I went back and measured my old original box test and that seems to be close to what it was doing before but since as KnockemDown pointed out as I moved the over a greater range the error became more apparent.
I will play with it a little more to see if it is consistently moving .2875 per click.

Just an FYI I ran the same test twice on the Weaver Tactical Mil/Mil and ran is up and down 36 inches and it tracked into less than a 1/2 inch in every direction and returned to perfect zero both times. I am looking forward to stretching the 6.5 CM out a little.
 
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Originally Posted By: venaticI reran my Clearidge on a bigger scale test to check tracking.

Shot a target dot then ran it up 10MOA bullet impacted 11.5 inches high.
Ran the windage 10MOA right and bullet impacted 11.5 inches right.
Ran the windage back 20 MOA and the bullet impacted 12.5 inches left.
Then ran scope back to Zero and I had to shoot twice because the first shot hit in the bull but right in the hole my 6.5CM made and we were not sure so I shot again and hit the edge of the target dot.

So the good news is that with all that moving up and down it returned right back to zero. The clicks on mine seem to be moving .2875 per click instead of .25. I went back and measured my old original box test and that seems to be close to what it was doing before but since as KnockemDown pointed out as I moved the over a greater range the error became more apparent.
I will play with it a little more to see if it is consistently moving .2875 per click.

Just an FYI I ran the same test twice on the Weaver Tactical Mil/Mil and ran is up and down 36 inches and it tracked into less than a 1/2 inch in every direction and returned to perfect zero both times. I am looking forward to stretching the 6.5 CM out a little.



... but, a 1/4 of a minute of angle, is 0.262", not 0.2875" - small difference, until you start doping and dialing at long range.
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And, if you ran the turrets 10 MOA, the POI should have moved 10.5", NOT 11.5".

And if you...

"Ran the windage 10MOA right and bullet impacted 11.5 inches right.
Ran the windage back 20 MOA and the bullet impacted 12.5 inches left."

... your left POI should NOT have been 12.5" left - that is not consistent with the other movements of 11.5"

I think something is amiss
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Catshooter is correct because the manual says 1/4 MOA not 1/4 inch so in theory the 10MOA should have moved the POI 10.48 inches. Seth has the "Shooter" program on his IPhone and it allows you to compensate for each scope's exact click factor if it is slightly off..but it has to be consistent of course to effective.

That seems strange to me as well that the elevation and right windage moved consistent but when moving to the left it was slightly more?

We did the box test with Seth's scope and it tracked consistent up and right but gained going left as well. I am wondering if moving 20 MOA at once is the culprit so that is why I mentioned I will play with mine a little more by going left first then back to zero then go right just to see what she does.

 
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Ok guys as David posted earlier my results were pretty similar to his on my box test except
My scope seemed to track to the left a little further then his did when moving 10MOA to the left . The up and down test were really consistant each time and moving to the right each time was pretty consistant exept for the top right dot the bullet moved some what higher for some reason? As David stated both scopes returned to zero very nicely each time no issues their at all. Here is a pic of the box test
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Basically what I did was zero the gun on the middle dot then went up 10 MOA then right 10 MOA then down 10 MOA then back over to the middle 10 MOA then repeated the same thing to the left and these were my results.

We will keep testing these scopes to see how consistant our test our to be honest they don't track perfect but your not paying over 1000.00 for them either in a basic hunting situation I feel like I could dial up to 300 with my gun zeroed at 100 yards and hit a coyote all day long. Which is all I need it to do right now anyways. But it would be nice to see all these scopes dial exactly they way they should but that's not the case with many scopes on the market that claim to be tactical dialing scopes. All in all I like my XP5 but theirs always room for improvement.

On another note the same gun and scope combo is shooting pretty good groups!
This is my wife's Cz 527 Varmint 223 with a 24 inch barrel testing 3 loads yesterday at the range.

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all loads 5 shots groups with 52 gr Berger Match Varmint bullets

1st ...powder was Xterminator
2 nd ...powder was VV - 133
3 rd .... Powder was VV N530

All 3 groups could be covered with a dime! Not bad for a factory gun.
 
Knockemdown very good point! But your post has got me curious which scope do you prefer that tracks true and has descent glass for under $1000.00 ? Also just for giggles which long range scope is your personal favorite price aside basically one that you have put through the paces and it pass all the test so to speak? One last question when checking the tracking on a scope what level of tolerance do you allow ? Does it half to track exactly perfect or is with in a 1/2 of a inch close enough. I'm just wondering by no means am I a expert on these matters I'm just starting out in the long range stuff and wanted to know what to expect and if a man needs to pay over 1200.00 for a great tracking scope with good glass and theirs nothing in between that will do the same for less money then that's what I need to know. Thanks for your help this is how folks find out the good, bad and the ugly on products is honest oppions from folks that truly test their gear out. God bless Seth
 
Hi Seth.
Sadly, I haven't found a mid priced scope with exposed turrets that I fully trust. That's not to say they aren't out there, I'm saying that I just don't bother trying to find them anymore.

Heck I just flat GAVE UP.

I simply want a scope that will perform as advertised, NOT one that is "good enough", or "close enough". Why a shooter has to settle for "good enough" when he's droppin' 300-800 dollars for a riflescope is comletely beyond me!
IMHO, if a scope's turret is labeled .25MOA, then it dang well better adjust that much per click. Otherwise just put a friggin' ? on the turret, cuz that's the reality of the situation....
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OK, rant off.

My sticks that need scopes to dope get NXS or Premier scopes.
(If I had the scratch, they'd all be Premiers)
Period.
End of story.

Yes, they are expensive, but these higher end scopes track like they are on rails. And they track TRUE to their labeled adjustment increments. If they didn't, they'd get boxed up and sent in for repair! (that has not happened to me, yet)

When you buy these high dollar scopes, not only are you buying quality glass & precision engineering, you are buying peace of mind. Having the utmost confidence in your gear is not easy to put a price tag on, so I just buy the best I can from the start. Then I test them to my satisfaction and when they are proven, I don't have to sweat over them anymore. Twist the turret, and send it!!! NO guessing games...

I'll be the first to admit that these 'tactical' type scopes are pretty much completely unnecessary for the majority of coyotes that hunters shoot (
 
Great post Man !!! I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions ... Every hunters Question For that matter. I'm totally on board with your train of thought. Save your money and get the good stuff the first time around. I always said "you only half to buy it once".... That is Untill you buy another rifle
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To tell you the truth , I bought my XP5 used for 250.00 at the time I needed a scope for my wife's 223. That may shoot the occasional 350 yard shot and figured something that dialed might come in handy. But for serious long range stuff like my custom built 6MM AI ...I have coming that can shoot a 75 gr vmax at 3800 FPS ...And very capable of reaching 700 yards. I'm considering some really well built glass that dials better then a .." Angery wife with her husbands credit card at 2:00 morning watching QVC"...
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to be honest your post really helps me make up my mind to save my money and buy the scope of my "Dreams" vs the scope that can just get me by. Not taking away from the XP5 ... In any way besides the speratic tracking the rest of the scope is great ... Decent glass , 30 mm tube , Good eye relief, Not too bulky, Nice power range ... I just want to be honest and unless it's just my scope not tracking exactly like it should ? Then as long as a person knows up front that your going to get allot of bang for your buck but just not a scope that tracks perfect then I guess that will help them decide what they need which is the whole purpose in a review to be honest and give real world results so other folks can spend the hard earned money to purchase exactly what they need in a certain scope. I know one thing it's really neat to be able to move your turrets all around then go right back to zero and it shoot in the same spot.... Helps give you peace of mind if your scope gets tweaked some how. Thanks again for answering my questions! God bless Skinner
 
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You're welcome, Seth
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A badazz custom rifle like the 6mmAI build you mentioned is deserving of a quality riflescope!

If you trust that XP5 enough that it'll return to zero for ya everytime, then why not run it?

You could forget about the fact that the scope clicks are not accurate. As long as they are CONSISTENTLY wrong, you can map out the turret with your load and make a dope chart based on your 'in the field' findings...
Whatever the scope needs to correct for your load is the only thing that matters. If the scope is consistently repeatable, you have a tool that is useable.

The fact that you might be getting .28MOA instead of .25MOA can be accounted for easily enough. And some ballistics programs (like Exbal) will allow you to input custom turret adjustment values to compensate for that deviation...

Good luck with your new rifle!
Fred
 
Fred .... I'm going to leave the XP5 on my wife's 223 it seems to be a nice fit for that gun. The 6MM AI is defiantly going to get some good glass I can't wait to shoot this thing it's been a long time coming! I'll post some pics up of it once I settle on a scope. Take it easy Skinner
 
A little follow-up on my Clearidge XP5 2.5-12.5 scope. I still have it mounted on a DTech Tac .20 and friday evening I shot steel out to 400 yards. There was only light winds 5-7mph and they were variable so I just held windage and dialed for elevation.
I was trying the 37gr CRT .20 caliber bullets and I just plugged the info into JBM and printed out the drop table and used that as a starting reference. I also had 100 rounds loaded with the 35gr Berger's and out to 400 yards I could not shoot good enough to tell the difference. NOTE! The CRT 37gr weighed 36.2 on my scale but were all consistent. Same powder and charge in both.
At 300 yards the data/scope was perfect 1.3 MOA up put me dead center. At 400 yards the JBM data said 3.1MOA but it actually took 3.2MOA to put 4 shots into the bull after the 1st was low.
Now the question would it return to zero as it has been doing on the box tests? Saturday evening I went to my normal local range(200 yard max) to check.

Here is the target. I am planning on taking this gun/scope to Montana for coyotes in September.
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Want to see how the CRT bullet does on coyotes.

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