Harassing Wildlife

I live in a suburb of St. Louis, Missouri ( GO RAMS !!!). I asked one of our fine Police Officers in this town about the use of deadly force to protect myself & my wife. I was told that I could shoot the intruder all I wanted to, just remember to make sure he doesn't leave the INSIDE of my house and that he was dead. He told my wife and I that it is better to KILL the intruder than to wound him as wounding can complicate the matter. The intruder can claim we shouldn't have been in fear for our lives or that he was already out of the house when we shot him. He said that if the intruder gets out of the house before he is dead, drag him back in the house so there won't be any questions asked (clean the blood up from outside 1st). He also said we wouldn't be prosecuted if the intruder was killed while we used a legally purchased and registered (licensed) gun. I asked what constitutes excessive force and he told us that emptying our gun into the intruder would be ok, just don't reload it. So now we keep her 9mm Glock & my .45ACP Glock loaded with self defense loads and in the top drawer of each night stand by our bed. I don't think we will have any problems with intruders at our house. ~~radmohunter~~

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"January 1, 2007 -- Oh what a GLORIOUS day that will be !!!"

[This message has been edited by radmohunter (edited 01-31-2002).]
 
He said that if the intruder gets out of the house before he is dead, drag him back in the house so there won't be any questions asked (clean the blood up from outside 1st).

If you believe ANY of that you're living in serious risk. That's an old, very old, urban myth.

Altering a crime scene is a felony. And forensics is good enough to prove such an effort. WHERE a shooting takes place isn't the relevant part, WHY it takes place is.



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"When They turn the pages of history,
When these days have passed long ago.

Will they read about us in sorrow,
for the seeds that we let grow?" - RUSH, "A Farewell To Kings"
 
Subject is geeting a little off fellows. As far as shooting one in the ear(coyote), Who the hell is gonna know that you hit him? Is that "officer " gonna trap him in the few seconds that it takes for that coyote to get clean outta sight after the shot? I don't think so.

On the other hand shooting one in the ear would cause that yote pain and is deffinatly harrassment. as per the paint ball- I don't agree with it but don't downgrade one that does it either. Just not my cup of tea. If I were gonna waste a piant ball it would be on a human that has the chance to shoot me back with a paint ball. Now that is fun. Been shot with a cheep paintball gun and it didn't hurt that much, no bruise. Got shot with a real man's paintball gun and it hurt like hell. Bruised pretty bad also.

If ya shoot them in the ear I would just shutup about it and not tell. A warden or game official isn't gonna know that you did it. Upon obsevation, all he will be able to tell is that you missed.


Then of course there is the ramification that shooting one in the ear is going to send a bullet to who knows where? Unless you are good enough to pick your back stop and get that coyote to stand in front of it Let's face it , you never know when someone else is going to be out there in front of you and you don't see them. To send a bullet flying through a coyote's ear and out the other side to possibly ricochet is not a good idea. I know that any bullet can go through a yote, but after exit it it will be containing a lot less energy compared to the thinness of an ear. I personally would rather see you shoot him with a paintball. as the paint ball even if traveling 600 fps will only travel about 50 yards before impact with the ground thus destroying it upon impact lol. Could that be construed as litter or maybe defacing public property? (just joking) ...>>>James L.

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people!
 
Rich - Heres an idea for you. In the Arizona Hunting Regs. it says that it is perfectly legal to hunt a coyote with an air rifle/pellet gun. If you have to count coup, on a called coyote take the pellet gun, if it is a pump gun, simply bump it up enough to sting the coyote. Better yet use an old BB gun. I've been shot several times with one of those and I never got more than stung. Then you shot a coyote with a lawful taking device, but were unable to harvest it.

Michael
 
letter of the law vs "intent"


Isnt it enough that youre already "stealing their souls" with the cameras ? hahaha.

(Devils Advocate Hat on again...)

Heres an interesting "twist": instead of coyotes, what if a guy was out shooting Whitetail Deer with Paintballs and BBguns ...

Is your outlook/opinion changed ?

Again these arent animals eating your flower garden or getting in your garbage...
(hat off)

BB Gun Fun !


[This message has been edited by Robb/Scottsdale/AZ (edited 01-31-2002).]
 
Hmmmmmm .... sooooo .... basicly we aren't able to simply have fun with our interaction with a wild animal, if we interact we are required to kill it or leave it alone. Interesting, very interesting. Something to think about.

Michael
 
I remember a news story from a few years ago where a guy was heading home from playing paintball. He came across some kids doing graffiti on a wall so he figured he'd give them a taste of their own "fun" and marked THEM with his paintball gun. He was arrested and charged with assault.

In a sane world he'd have been give an award.

No Rich, killing a coyote is "murder" and paintballing them is "harassment." I believe the only thing you can do these days that is politically correct is to sit at home and read "The Communist Manifesto" while eating tofu.
rolleyes.gif


Doug
 
Michael, just put into words exactly what bothers me about this nonsense. John, let me explain my perspective before you feel too sorry for the pain I inflict on the coyotes. I used to work summers and weekends on a cattle ranch and after branding, dehorning, cutting and splitting ears, and castrating all without benefit of anesthesia and with the blessing of society at large I can't get too worked up over punching a single hole in a canines ear, and considering the alternative I'm very surprised that anyone else does. I visit the mall and see a fairly large number of teenagers with a dozen holes in their ears with numerous large metallic objects imbedded and suspended from said holes and (shudder) eyebrows, noses, tongues and cheeks pierced and I'm going to wonder if they or their parents are concerned that I occasionally punch a hole in a coyotes ear rather than kill it. Wait a minute, is it possible--- nope it's certain. I don't care! Concerning the admonition about richochets, thank you for caring but I'm always in compliance with Jeff Coopers 3rd cardinal rule of firearm safety. Give me a little credit. Also we leave our guns set at 270 fps which is maximum velocity allowed for competition.
 
Granted,

However, Tagging ears, castrating, etc serves a perceived purpose... some "necessity" if you will... (IE: theres a reason for it.) Theyre not doing it for fun.

and really, from the communications that I have had, even Rancher's are becoming more critical of their own practices (or at least becoming more "discrete" about it).
 
even Rancher's are becoming more critical of their own practices (or at least becoming more "discrete" about it)
Click to expand...

Maybe they're just getting tired of puting up with all the PC BS, too.
 
I visit the mall and see a fairly large number of teenagers with a dozen holes in their ears with numerous large metallic objects imbedded and suspended from said holes and (shudder) eyebrows, noses, tongues and cheeks...
Click to expand...

Yeah, and those are just the piercings that are visible.
biggrin.gif


For those of you who are concerned about shooting coyotes with paintballs, I can just imagine how happy you are that Arizona outlawed (for the most part) trapping.

I don't think it can be denied that the lives of coyotes and other wild animals are almost always nasty, brutish and short. On the scale of things, the slap of a paintball or a hole in the ear won't even rate on their list.

-dan
 
OK Michael, now everything is clear as mud. You're telling me that I can shoot them with a BB gun but not a paintball? Those things can put your eye out. I guess the framers of the regs didn't see "A Christmas Story"? What I really want to hear about is Jay's calling safari to the zoo. How did the big, bad exotics react to the call? Did they approach the call? I wonder how often zoo-bred predators have heard a distress cry.
 
Here You go Rich !!

The perfect "Angle" (Pun slightly intended)
to go back to AZGFD with....
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If shooting coyotes with paintball gun is considered "harassment"...

Then what is "Catch and Release" fishing ?
isnt that "fish harassment" ?


Whats "good and just" for one type of creature (Fish=cold and slimy) is totally different than what "good and just" for another creature (Mammal=warm and fuzzy)

That's Discrimination !!!!

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feel free to discuss....
 
Stu Farish,
That"myth" you mentioned earlier sure got around.A police captain told me the same thing a few years ago."If they fall outside the doorway,drag them back inside before you call us.".Maybe it wouldn't always work, but that is what he told me to do if it ever happened to me.
 
Yeah, I've had uniformed cops tell me the same thing, in multiple states. Call your District Attorney's office, or the state Attorney General's office, ask them. Cops simply arrest people, take them into custody, and do some investigation/documentation of crime scenes. The decision to prosectute is made by people who are trained in what the law allows them to prosecute for, and that isn't the cops.

If I ever have to shoot anyone, I won't be moving any bodies around. I'll tell the responding officers that I'll be happy to cooperate and make a full statement. After I've had a chance to consult my attorney and will have him present when making said statement, or answering any questions they have. And that's all I'll say until my attorney is present and I've had a chance to go over it with him privately.

Rich, don't get me wrong: I have no problem with your idea. I just think if you do it, you might want to be carefull about talking about it.
 
Ex-paintballer here, and I know, from experience, that if you freeze a paintball, its gonna HURT!! You could probably kill one with a PB gun IF, the gun was turned all the way up and you froze the paint, and shot them at point blank, in the head, MAYBE! I dont know, and im not going to try it either. For the love of god, use real ammo
smile.gif
 
I had this long response typed up but I have changed my mind and I will say this.


I do not care if you pop one with a paint ball or punch a hole through its ear with a high powered rifle.


What I will ask is this, Why is it that you have to mark the animal that you have just called up? I would just like to know. Please do not get offended by my asking you this as it is not my intention of doing so.


As far as the written law, we have to remember that for the most part it is not hunters setting these laws up. If we want them changed it is up to us to get out there and campaign for it. Not sit on our a$$es and complain about it. I know those are harsh words but they are absolute truth. Just the way it is. Now everyone have a nice day and do have some fun..........James L.

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yotewalk.gif


Never underestimate the power of stupid people!
 
It would be kinda interesting to know if your "secret" calling spot was being called by other individuals...Hence painted coyote. If hunters were assigned specific colors, I could tell who's been in there.

A coyote splashed with multiple colors would give indication that they aren't nearly as clever as many believe they are.

I could see paint-balling as a precursor to teaching rookies and youngsters alike about firearms and safety in the field under actual hunting conditions.

Pre-painting coyotes would save PETA the risk of arrest and attorny fees.

All that said... I would not want to be the one to stand up before any Commission and ask that paintball guns be considered legal firearms for the "bruising" instead of "taking" of wildlife. I'd be too embarrassed and would lose what little credibility I feel I may have.

NOW... If you could convince the Feds that you are conducting a "STUDY" and present your RFP's, they may just pay you.
KRI-KEE, MATE.


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Blow A Rhino
 
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