Having probs loading 200 Gr LSWC for my .45 ACP

Mavrick10_2000

Mavrick10_2000

New member
I hate to admit it, but I'm a bit frustrated and stumped. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Background:

I started shooting IPSC/USPSA a few months ago with my S&W 1911 and wanted to load cast bullets because lead splatter off of steel isn't quite as bad as sharp copper jacketed lead splatter off of steel. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif My Hornady 230 gr jacketed FP loads work well (.451)dia. So I bought some Laser Cast 200 Gr LSWC (.452) dia. since no one has had any 230 gr cast RN's. Found loads in my manual and I made several attempts without success on my dummy rounds.

I'm using RCBS carbide dies, only a slight (almost) unnoticable belling on the necks of the new cases to hold the bullet during seating and a taper crimp. The "gas checks"/ "gasket-like thing" around the diameter of the bullet (I think that's what there called) on these seem to leave a very slight "raised bump" after I taper crimp and seated to manual specs, enough that I cannot get a consisted feeding/cycling with my dummy rounds. I've tried expanding the case mouth a bit more but still it's no good. I have mic'd the bullets and they are no larger than .452 dia.


I've been handloading for about 10 years, only 2 of that for handguns. With handguns it's usually a crinkled piece of brass or two and the dies are setup correctly and my dummy rounds are to specs and I begin loading.

Maybe I'm missing something completely obvious. Any suggestions? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
A "gas check" is a piece of copper on the base of the bullet and your LaserCast probably doesn't have it.

You should have at least one ring around the slug and it should be packed with grease. There is no second crimp ring because a 45 does not need that much crimp. Unlike a 44mag.

I'd seat the bullet so that the case mouth is right at the edge of bullets shoulder.

Be very careful not to crimp too much. You want just enough crimp that the "bell" in the case mouth that you put on the case for seating the bullet, is just snug to the slug. Or just pushed back straight with the rest of the case wall. I use a Case Gauge, a very useful tool, at this point to judge if it will chamber correctly. You could also take your barrel out of the gun and slide the bullets into it. But a case gauge is easier.

Sometimes I've even set my crimp die to a factory round to determine a good starting point for the crimp. You just raise the factory round to the top of the press stroke and then finger tighten the die down/around the cartridge. Stop when snug.

Your "raised bump" could be from too much crimp. I've always found that round nose bullets reload easier, and have less feed problems.
 
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There is a bit of differamce between loading cast and jacketed bullets from what your saying it sounds like about .001" You might try a larger expander plug in your case belling die. Thats the part that goes inside the case as it runs up into the die before the mouth gets belled, call RCBS about that, they will take care of you. But your cases are being sized to small a diameter and the bullet bases are expanding a ring, below the case mouth, that is what is causing the case to not feed correctly.
 
Two things come to mind: one, most 1911's will need to have the feed ramp polished, before they will reliably feed a SWC style bullet, and two, you need a bit of lead shoulder exposed, ahead of the case mouth, to ride on that feed ramp. Typically, 200 gr. SWC OAL is about 1.260", which will leave you a bit of bullet shoulder to ride up the ramp. But, you may still need to have a gunsmith polish the feed ramp.
 
I just thought of somthing else, the bullets your haveing problems with are they intended for a 1911 ACPtype pistol or a 45 LC revolver? .453 is more the revolver diameter while .451 is found more in ACP pistols. Just a thought I don't shoot cast in either of my 45ACP pistols so I am not real sure I do not load LC either just 44 Mag revolvers.
 
Mavrick10_2000


I had the same problem in my sw1911 with the 200 lswc lasercast bullets. I would crimp very slightly and the bulge at the base of the bullet ; now in the middle of the brass case would hang up and not enter the chamber smoothly.

The solution:

Buy a lee factory crimp die for about 10 bucks. After you seat the bullet in your rcbs die run it thru the factory crimp. It will squeeze down the brass to the proper diameter and just use a very light crimp as Bigdog2 says "You want just enough crimp that the "bell" in the case mouth that you put on the case for seating the bullet, is just snug to the slug. Or just pushed back straight with the rest of the case wall."


After you finish a round drop it in your chamber. It should plop right in and out of there.



Good Luck
 
Thanks for the assistance everyone!

I'll try the Lee FCD and put a call into RCBS as well - They've always been great. Worst case is I'll sell them to one of the guys at the range or trade off for some 230 gr Cast RN's.

BigDog2,

Re: Gas Checks I realized that after I posted it. No the laser casts don't have a gas check, only the grease.


Blinddog,
The .452 Dia bullets are usually ok for .45 ACP as many manuals will have those diameters for cast bullets. The .45 LC are a little larger.
 
I had had some chambering problems in the past on my 1911's Seems the round would go about 2/3 the way in the chamber and stop, and jam tight. I thought at first it was the cast bullets, seating depth etc.....turns out I had some brass with a headstamp "AMERIC" it was 8 to 9 thousands thicker than everything else I had. Which is plenty to jam things up good. After a taper crimp 45acp does have a slight bulge look to it, at least it does from the Dillon dies I use. I sorted out almost 250 rounds of the junk and thru it away, problem solved.

A case gauge is a very handy tool, you can get them for 10 to 15 bucks, I bought one after that.
 
Are you taper crimping? The acp cartridges need to be taper crimped not roll crimped. Just a reminder. Most die sets do not come with a taper crimp die.
Tuco
 
All these loads are with Win Factory new brass.

Whenever I'm picking up some fresh range brass anything with Amerc gets crushed with pliers and thrown into my recycle stash.
 
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Are you taper crimping? The acp cartridges need to be taper crimped not roll crimped. Just a reminder. Most die sets do not come with a taper crimp die.
Tuco



Tuco,

Yes I'm definitely using a taper crimp. RCBS Carbide dies have a taper crimp, it's just a little sloppier on the taper for these cast bullets - Jacketed they work and function flawlessly.

I've read reviews this morning specifically dealing with the issue I'm having with my exact cast bullets from several reviewers who use the Lee FCD (Taper Crimp). The issues I'm having were solved with the use of LEE Carbide FCD.

I appreciate the sanity check on the crimp type.

Thanks,

Bob
 
Maverick,
I have been reloading 200 gr. cast lead swc bullets for many years shooting IDPA with my 1911 .45 ACP. The advice you have gotten above is good. The only thing I question is the light taper crimp. As others have said above there should be a few thousands of an inch of the shoulder of the bullet extending above the top edge of the case. When the cartridge is picked up from the magazine as the slide cycles it hits the feed ramp and is guided into the chamber. The tip of the swc bullet is the first part of the cartridge to hit the feed ramp then as it moves on up the feed ramp the little bit of lead above the top edge of the case wall makes contact with the feed ramp as it goes up the ramp and into the chamber. If the taper crimp is not tight enough the bullet can be pushed down into the case compacting the powder charge when the tip of the bullet hits the feed ramp. At the very least this can cause poor accuracy. Take the recoil spring out of your gun and try cycling some of your dummy rounds so you can see how this cycling works. Cycle them from the magazine. If everything is correct it should cycle smoothly. All my reloads have a slight bulge at the bottom of where the bullet is seated. This is OK as long as the cartridge fits in the chamber OK. It actually helps prevent the bullet from being pushed back into the case as described above. Don't taper crimp too lightly! Hang in there you will figure it out and will do well with the 200 gr. swc bullets. They are my favorites and have less recoil than the 230 gr. bullets. The also cut nice holes in the targets! Hope this helps.

Jim
 
At the very least I have shot several tens of thousands of 200 gr. LSWC hard cast from various .45 ACP's over the years. Usually under a decent dose of Unique powder. Usually the problem you are describing can be fixed by fiddling around very slightly with the OAL of the cartridge. You have received some good advice above by several of the posters. The Lee FCD is a good piece of gear for any cartridge and works quite well. Changing the OAL length by just a smidge can make a wonderous difference in feed reliability with the SWC style bullet. That is a very good bullet, very accurate. When pushed to velocities from 900 to 1,000 fps the 200 gr. SWC cuts nice clean holes in paper and hits small and medium sized game quite hard. I've used that bullet from a Colt's Gold Cup to take rabbits, squirrels, coons raiding the chicken coop, groundhogs digging under the barn or into the garden, snakes along the creek, and a slew of feral dogs and cats. The effect on the larger animals over the standard 230 gr. FMJ roundnose was markedly better.
 
Just athought but the Lee carbide factory crimp die is perfect for this problem. I cured my problem by going with Rainier or Berry's bullets and the Lee die. They have a thin coating of plating that does not lead but still acts like a cast bullet agianst steel. Denny
 
I like those Rainiers. Although slightly different, I like loading Rainier 125 gr for my wifes S&W Airweight in .38 Spcl. Very economical, and easy on the hand for target practice with the snubby.
 
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and two, you need a bit of lead shoulder exposed, ahead of the case mouth, to ride on that feed ramp. Typically, 200 gr. SWC OAL is about 1.260", which will leave you a bit of bullet shoulder to ride up the ramp. But, you may still need to have a gunsmith polish the feed ramp.



Just for future reference, that's not always true with all the .45 ACP guns. My Colt Gold Cup allows me to seat the 200 grain SWC slightly past the mouth of the case. But, my Taurus Millenium Pro PT 145 requires it to be seated flush with the mouth. It wouldn't reliably lock up until I reseated the bullets I had loaded so that the shoulder of the bullet was flush with the mouth of the case. And, it will reliably feed the shells even with the bullets seated slightly deeper.
 
Thanks for everyones input.

204Dude - The Lee FCD did the trick.

3.7 gr of Clays feels close to shooting a .22 mag with these 200 SWC Loads. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I am not sure of the SWC design you are shooting. When I shot competition using a 45 before switching over to the .38 super I believe the bullet used was a H&G 68. I believe OAL was set a 1.235 as best I remember. I would check that length to make sure I am not mistaken. Some SWC's have a shorter nose than others. OAL in a 45 is a big deal for proper feeding.

Also, does you die set have a SWC seater? or Rn?
 
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