headshot vs vitals

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1

maybe the cops should start taking head shots... you either take him out or shoot his jaw off so he can't plead insanity.

Sounds like a plan...
 
Interesting thread.

Again I think it has to do with caliber, ammo and distance.
Grandpa taught me how to shoot. He grew up on a poor dirt
farm during the dust bowl years. Only gun he had was an
old .22.. Grandparents and family's main source of food
was whatever he could kill with that .22. And he made a
few $$ with coyotes due to bounties and pelts.

Lots of pheasants, rabbit, etc. All head shots as it
didn't waste meat that way. The animal also didn't have
a chance to run off, hide and die where it couldn't be
found. So, that's what I learned.

I keep my distances as short as possible and I don't shoot
unless I'm sure the animal will drop like a rock.

My shots are usually between 30-100 yards max. I am fully
capable of putting a hollow point into a skull of most
animals at that distance. Even if you don't hit a "sweet"
spot, the shock alone of a hollow point hitting and
expanding is generally enough to kill most critters from
coyote size on down. The "sweet" spot on a canine is
just a hair above and behind the ear canal.

I rarely use a .22 on coyotes or wild dogs anymore. I
switched to a .223 as I just needed a little more distance
from time to time. I also use a scope now to add a little
help to aging eyes.

But I do still have Grandpa's old .22. Don't shoot it
anymore as the chamber is pitted out pretty bad. Guess
I should get that fixed as that old rifle is about as
accurate as you can get. It's a 1912 Remington pump -
deluxe model, octogon barrel. It's even a take down.

Randy
 
I find it interesting how some, maybe blowhards, proclaim ethics or make comparisons. However when given a headshot(tall grass, brush, fence) what do they do? Maybe they will pass while talking on the keyboard, but I wonder how many have missed when given a full body shot, or hit them in the head when aiming elsewhere because of the wind. Or have taken that irresistible last chance shot at a parting coyote. I see whole groups of experienced coyote hunters shooting at running coyotes even on video by some of our favorite callers. By the standards being proclaimed here it is hereby a sin to shoot at a moving coyote because very few can succeed and nobody knows for certain where it might connect.
There are even long posts about how to shoot at running coyotes on almost every forum.
How about these long shots that are shown here and on video, it is a calculated risk.
Even punching paper the excuses roll out for shortcomings.
People with the best of intentions fall short in many ways in this game. I don't know anyone that intends to shoot a leg off but it happens every year. For those that need to get righteous you can still make it to church today.
With all the given variables involved from every set for every hunter throughout the season weather, terrain, obstacles, light, experience, equipment, mindset, eyesight and a few others ethics become only a percentage of reality.
 
Pieeyed,
No need to get worked up about it. The question asked was “which is the better shot”.
From this we can assume that both shots are available. Given the option I will always take the higher percentage shot. I’ve already admitted to taking less than ideal shots but only when no better shot exists.

RJM,
Your post is the rare exception. Times were tough and Grandpa had to make do with what little he had. Most of the younger generations don’t have your Grandpa’s discipline instilled into them at a young age. They read these posts about head shooting and think that’s how it’s done. The thing lacking is what you stated,

“I keep my distances as short as possible and I don't shoot
unless I'm sure the animal will drop like a rock.

My shots are usually between 30-100 yards max. I am fully
capable of putting a hollow point into a skull of most
animals at that distance. “

Consistently hitting a 1” target from 30yds-100yds with a 22 rimfire is far more challenging than the average newb might imagine. If anybody thinks it’s that simple, try teeing up a couple dozen golf balls from 30yds-100yds and start wacking away with your favorite rimfire. Throw a little wind in the mix and you’ve got some real fun. Once you’ve got that down, super glue a few dozen Neeco’s to your tees and then tell me how easy head shots are. When you’re good enough to consistently hit all of the Neeco’s, you’re only halfway there. RJM's Grandpa did it all on live game (because he had to).
 
Thanks emeraldterriers1,
“times have changed” Ain’t that the trouth.

I have nothing but respect for the folks who lived thru the dust bowl days.
My Mom was one of them.
You had to be a survivor and make do with what little you had.
I wouldn’t think of eating Carp today but my Mom says Grandpa caught and cooked them regularly. Passing up free protein was not an option.
 
My parents and grandparents lived in south central
Nebraska during the dust bowl years. Was a real hard
life for them but they managed to get by. Mom spent over
a year in the hospital with dust pnemonia.
They always remembered those tough years and we were
brought up thinking that's just the way life was even
for us.

Carp can be mighty tasty if cooked right. Haven't had
it in years however. There are some restaraunts that
specialize in it.

Grew up eating lots of pheasant. Never cared for it much
but I ate it anyway.

Randy
 
Originally Posted By: ruger243223You take whatever shot you can get. When calling I have very seldom got a perfect shot ever. I take head shots vital shots ars shots what ever I can get. I use a 243 mostly with the 55gr Bts with great success. But why argue take what you get and be happy. HAPPY HUNTING

Cant say it any better than that. I do try and stay away from the arse shots, but if thats what I am given, I take it then quickly follow up with a fatal shot.
 
Hunting to me is a success ratio. The More I can add the success into my hunting, the happier I am. I have had people talk to me about aiming for the eye in a hunting situation. Ok, certain shooters can put bullets into itty bitty groups on paper, but when faced with wild game they dont allow time to set up wind flags, get the chronograph out and do Benchrest style shooting.
CoyoteVitalSpota2.jpg


Its not had to decide which place to aim at a Coyote. JMO.
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It all depends on the gun I'm using and the animal I am shooting at and it's position. On a coyote I go for the body. Usually shooting a Swift or 6mm. I have made some long and marginal shots where the Swift still put the animal down. Cats, it all depends on the position and gun used. If I have Purp and the cat is broadside= head shot. If he is facing I'll put it in his chest. You will be hard pressed to find a bullet hole. If I am using the 6BR it is a head shot nearly every time.
 
I dont like missin so I go for the vitals if possible.I like the shots that are facing me the best.I'll put one right in the chest and more than likely wont even have a hole to sew up.But if all I have is a headshot I wont think twice about squeezin the trigger.The problem with that is you have to hit the brain,not just the head.If you hit the yote in the jaw its gonna blow its jaw off and thats about it.The other problem I have with headshots is that it is really hard to skin a critter thats been shot in the head.The only time I shoot em' in the head is if thier close and I have a shotgun.I'll smoke em' right in the gourd/neck 9 times out of 10.The reason for that is because I use turkey loads and I dont trust those smaller pellets enough to go through the muscle and ribs and still have enough energy to destroy the lungs and heart.
 
Originally Posted By: 4949shooterThough I must say with a close shot on an approaching coyote I would not hesitate to aim for the head area if I were using a shotgun.

Shotgun's a different game, IMHO. If the 'yote is coming at me from 25 yds, I just aim center of his chest. Some shot's going to hit there, other's going to hit in the head- that's the way it is.

Here are some coyotes and the aiming point that I'd take with a .223. Feel free to edit with your aiming points.

coyote.jpg


coyote2a.jpg


coyote_eastern_380.jpg


coyote_roadside.jpg


Here's a tougher one- I'm going to line up with his neck so that if I go a little high, I'll still catch his neck/head. Not my preferred shot, but I want him down.
coyote1.jpg


I think this is really the toughest of the bunch. Not much chest showing. I will likely get the crosshairs on him and wait for him to stop and lift his head a bit. When he does- fire! If I really have to take THIS shot, I might go over the top of his head for the back- however, that can be a messy shot that ruins prime fur if it fragments the backbone. I'm going to wait. He's gonna lift his head a little at some point or look to the side or something.
coyote_9356.jpg
 
I use basically the same aim points.But I know myself well enough and the second to last picture is the one that I would aim differently on.I would more than likely aim at the neck so that I did'nt mess up and gut shoot the yote.If I tryed that shot I would probably have some trackin to do.
 
Originally Posted By: Orneryolfart357Id rather see pics of the ones recovered, than read about the ones that got away. Practice the way you feel.
that my friends sounds like orneyolwisdom. aim small,miss small.
 
I like to line up both knees on its front legs, incapacitating it, then walk up and break its neck. Ruins less fur that way.
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In all seriousness, I'm not a fur hunter, so I'll try and break both shoulders while hitting the lungs if possible. I have no qualms about trying to make his head into a canoe though.
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Originally Posted By: calling4lifeI like to line up both knees on its front legs, incapacitating it, then walk up and break its neck. Ruins less fur that way.
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In all seriousness, I'm not a fur hunter, so I'll try and break both shoulders while hitting the lungs if possible. I have no qualms about trying to make his head into a canoe though.
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Thats nothin.The next yote I kill I'm gonna dig a hole,lay in it,cover myself in leaves and then set the caller right next to myself.When the yote runs up to get the rabbit I'm gonna set up and put the yote in a choke hold and kill it without ruining a hair on its body.Now thats what I call coyote huntin!I got that idea from another topic.
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I wanna shoot a yote with a 45-70 (open sights)one time just to say I did.With a big gun like that I dont think it would make a difference where you shot em' at.It'd lay the smack down on one thats for sure.
 
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Emeraldterriers1,
Quote:maybe the cops should start taking head shots... you either take him out or shoot his jaw off so he can't plead insanity.
You obviously have never been on the losing end of a lawsuit where a 'purp' was left disabled or disfigured from a lawful police shooting where, he not only served a limited time in jail/pen due to injuries, but got awarded some big bucks for the rest of his natural life in the civil lawsuit...

My grandfather also raised a family through the depression and taught me how to shoot and quail hunt with a .22 (totally illegal) but he fed his family...

I've shot enough Squirrels & Rabbits (with head shots), competitions, and walked into a bunch of family disturbances & dark alleys over the last 50+ years to know my capability under most conditions and I don't get 'shook' very easily or often....But I still go for 'Center of Mass'....Cause I want the sucker dead...When the 'Yotes' start wearing body armor,,,then I'll concentrate on head shots..
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