heavy for caliber varmint bullet choices

H

harlanjered

New member
Would anyone else like to see more varmint type bullets offered in heavy weight bullets? I have recently started playing with longer range targets and realize that the better bc bullets would help with more predictable wind calls. However to stay with a varmint bullet I'm shooting an .243 87 grain vmax. I am happy with its performance at distance but I think theres room for improvement. Why cant I get a 100-130 grain varmint 6mm bullet?
I dont PRS, but it interests me, and this type bullet would allow me to use the same load for competitions as well as hunting. I know a lot of people dont like varmint bullets period but I like blowing big holes in things, and ruining fur as long as theyre DRT, esp at long distance.
 
Originally Posted By: liliysdadMatch bullets work just fine for killing stuff.....

True they will kill. But many of them do not kill quickly enough to suit me.

Several years ago I was in Wyoming shooting prairie dog with another member of the forum. I had my .220 Swift loaded with some Nosler 52 grain HPBT match bullets. They shot 5 into a dime at 100 yards with that Krieger barreled Swift and I was anxious to try them out on some prairie dogs. Things did not go well. I had a lot of runners that were well hit. Complete pass throughs with no expansion. Some were DRT but way too many others were able to make it back to their holes to die a slower than necessary death. This was never the case with polymer tipped bullets or varmint hollow points.

They might have worked OK on larger varmints like coyote but they sucked for quick kills on prairie dogs. I never bought them again.
 
Originally Posted By: RustydustOriginally Posted By: liliysdadMatch bullets work just fine for killing stuff.....

True they will kill. But many of them do not kill quickly enough to suit me.

Several years ago I was in Wyoming shooting prairie dog with another member of the forum. I had my .220 Swift loaded with some Nosler 52 grain HPBT match bullets. They shot 5 into a dime at 100 yards with that Krieger barreled Swift and I was anxious to try them out on some prairie dogs. Things did not go well. I had a lot of runners that were well hit. Complete pass throughs with no expansion. Some were DRT but way too many others were able to make it back to their holes to die a slower than necessary death. This was never the case with polymer tipped bullets or varmint hollow points.

They might have worked OK on larger varmints like coyote but they sucked for quick kills on prairie dogs. I never bought them again.

That mirrored my first PD work shooting the Hornady 52 Match in my 223. I was hammering them and having them crawl off. The bullets were great shooting egg/pop can matches but not live little targets. Berger MEF's handled them well on the next trip with great results.

Greg
 
I've been coming around to heavier stuff also, just for better/easier wind judgement. On the dog town the other day I got a real good dose of the difference between a 40 gr vmax at 3850, and an 87 gr vmax at 2920. At 375 yards with 15 mph cross wind the slower 87 smoked the faster 40. I could still hit with either one, but the wind hold was at least 50% more. P-dog pups aren't a very big target at that range in a wind and I need all the help I can get.

On the other hand, the light super fast stuff is nicer for closer range stuff or if the wind isn't blowing (never happens here it seems). It makes range estimation for stuff out to 250-300 less important.

The only 6mm competition to the 87 vmax I see that isn't priced like a Berger is the 95 TMK, and actually it's pretty close in price also. For the cost difference I will stick with the vmax, which I can usually pick up as seconds for 7 or 8 cents a piece if they have them when I'm there. Expensive bullets would be no fun for me in a dog town. Like you said, the 87 vmax could be improved and tweaked I think to get the bc up in the mid .4's probably, but right now I don't see much that's better.

In 224 I think when my supply of 40's is gone I will try to go with the 53 vmax. Still not a great bc but significantly better. I don't think I've ever tried a match bullet on p-dogs and don't think I will based on what you guys are saying.

For coyotes I would be interested in hearing first hand experience with the 95 TMK.
 
If you can get the velocity up a bit the Hornady Amax/ELD work fantastic on varmints. I started a thread Here that shows cross sections of different bullets. The ELD has a thin Amp jacket similar to the Vmax and in my experience expands very well at velocities over 3000 fps. I've been shooting 75 ELD's out of a 220 swift at 3400 and the results are spectacular! I get 3150 out of my 6mm Rem with 105 Amax and they do very well also. Sierra and Nosler heavies were poor for expansion. Berger Classic Hunters are somewhere in the middle. Just my 2 cents.
 
Bullet expansion as range increases has always been a problem.

Guys will focus on BC, then get a bunch of crawlers.

Here is the problem in a nut shell, thin jacket bullets in fast twist barrels have multiple issues. The bullet deforms the jacket(base of the bullet) when the bullet enters the lands, so in order to stop this problem, the bullet makers have to make a tougher bullet core, which retards expansion...catch 22.

So, they toughen up the jacket alloy, put in a harder core with more antimony, then add some air space between the top of the core in the bullet jacket and the HP or the plastic tip. The jacket still has to deform to allow the tip to "mash in" upon impact, or the HP has to be large enough to open up upon contact.

Making very long for caliber bullets is another can of worms. Barrel twist is huge for accommodating all shooters from high to low altitudes, cold and hot weather. Having a reamer made specifically for long throats is an investment for a gunsmith.

The only answer I have found is SPEED on a varmint bullet that will expand, and shop a credit card flat on buying good bullets when you find one that works. I really detest seeing crawlers, and coming up with a balance of speed/accuracy/needed bullet expansion is part of being a good sportsman. This speed comes at a price of often replacing barrels.

My feelings is that Dirtyhippie is correct in his analysis of current bullets and their application toward varmints/coyotes. With the Swift AI, 22/250 AI, 22/243 AI, 6 Rem AI with the 75-80g A max you have your best chances of success with long range accuracy with a good bullet expanding.

To the OP, harlanjered, we can only hope that folks will keep showing interest on long range shooting where R&D in good bullets will continue to be developed. The 87's out of a 6 Rem AI or 6/284 at 3600 is some good medicine, if you don't over twist it, and the 103-108g using R#26 is all over 3300-3400 fps.

I have a friend in NC that is shooting the 22 Grendel at 3300-3400 with berger 75g and shooting 1" groups in F class competition at 600 yards, but again the speed at long distance would retard the bullet expansion.

An answer maybe to go to a 7mm with a BC close to .800, then you have recoil to contend with.

Best wishes
 
So I was worried that the bullet composition played a big factor in current selections, makes sense but I was never good at physics.

I am currently running 87s at 3445 out of my ackley 243; and its a great caliber and I have another barrel on the way as I expect to burn through one per year. I've not tried any eld, but have some that I thought Id load for targets. I just dont want to go through more barrel life to make a second load. The 87s work good at distance on animals, and are ok for targets. But are over PRS speed limits and I know they blow around more than heavier options would.
I know a few people that like the amax type bullets on coyotes but I question their performance at longer distance as velocity drops. Where as I know that v-max explode well out to 1000, as they have a wide range of tolerable velocity
I wonder if anyone would comment on the 95 TMK, though they appear much like a amax
 
Harlon, an issue on your 87's would be throat length. You can get away with seating bullets deeper in the case if you have the know how to deal with doughnuts if and when they appear. I am sure that you are not filling up the case with powder.

Short freebore will add barrel life. I my 243 Ai's, I figure .100 per 1700 rounds of firing using a ball powder, less with R#19. I shot 85's at 3550 top end pressure accuracy node in good brass.
 
honestly no, I have a lot of learning in the area of wildcatting. I believe I have a relatively short throat as I seat my bullets fairly deep to stay just off the lands but don't have the measurements in front of me. If you had any great advice on the ackley I could probably use it if you had time to PM me. But otherwise Im learning as I go so to speak.
 
Back
Top