Help Choosing Groundhog/small game rifle and caliber

I really liked the .17 Hornet caliber before, just not the rifle...not big on the Savage 25, and again the Ruger is very expensive. I do agree that the 17WSM seema to be a step above the 22 WMR ...
 
Seems to me the WSM would be a good choice for groundhogs as far as a rimfire goes. I base that on what I have read about it's performance and not from personal experience. As previously mentioned, groundhogs can be tough critters sometimes. But also, based on the information on the net that I have read, the WSM doesn't strike me as being a good choice for gray squirrels if you plan to have anything left to eat.

The. 22 long rifle has long been considered a good squirrel round, but somewhat light for groundhogs except at rather close ranges.

Looking for the ideal caliber for small game, ie squirrels, rabbits AND groundhogs is almost akin to finding a fur-friendly round for a thin-skinned fox while also easily dropping a coyote consistently. I am not sure an ideal caliber or load exists that will perform for both. That topic is often asked and debated here on the forums. Sometimes there's a tradeoff. What you might gain in one area, you lose in another etc.

If you could possibly afford two rifles, then you could choose the best of both worlds. But if it must be one rifle for all critters mentioned, then my vote goes to the HMR.

The above is just me thinking out loud about the subject.
 
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeA 17 HMR is a real killer with the right shooter. Most are not up to the task,but those that are,critters watch out. I agree. With proper shot placement and the right bullet the HMR can handle coyotes and bobcats. I can't say I've ever shot anything I wanted to eat with the .17WSM but if I did I'd head shoot it. There's a little more of a selection for the .17HMR to minimize damage on edible critters. I'm more interested in blowing small varmints to pieces so I've never messed with anything that would save meat too much. I just didn't shoot them in the body if I wanted to eat a cottontail rabbit.

Another thing to consider is ammo availability. Where I'm at .22mag and .17hmr is really hard to find. A few of my buddies bought the .17WSM for that reason.
 
This is a good topic for discussion.

As I mentioned earlier, I have been working on a video, Rimfire Groundhogs. I currently have about 38 minutes of edited footage and hope to finish it in the near future. Getting time inbetween rains and family illness, plus a lower groundhog population has delayed things. We took several groundhogs with the HMR and a few with a 22 mag. I think there is one close range shot with a 22 long rifle.

Anyway, I will make up a few DVD's to give out if any of you would like to have a copy. Send me a personal mail with a mailing address and I will get a copy out to you. I will have to burn these on my computer so it may take a little while. Naturally supplies will be limited.

 
For those of you who shoot groundhogs with the 17 HMR, what kind of yardage are talking about for the typical shot???

To give you an idea for comparison sake, based on shooting sage rats with my 22lr, 17 HMR and 17 WSM, the difference I noticed going from a 22lr to the 17 HMR is comparable to what it's like going from the HMR to the WSM. Sage rats aren't very hard to kill and all three will easily kill them but the HMR is much more devastating than the 22lr's and the WSM is noticeably more explosive than the HMR, expecially when you start stretching the yardage out.

Top dog in the rimfire world is the WSM and you should be able to get one of the Target Bmag's with the stainless heavy barrel and laminated thumbhole stock within your $400-$500 price range.

If you want something small but with quite a bit more pop than the 17 WSM can delivery, I'd look for a CZ 527 in 17 Hornet. Those CZ 527's always seem to shoot pretty darn good.
 
I have a savage b'mag with boyds stock which I love. It will wreck whatever you shoot. Mine is the standard barrel model and I have no complaints with it. I have been running the 25 grain bullets through it.
 
Well i think i may just have to purchase 2 rifles, i liked the cz 455 for ability to use 3 calibers, .22LR, .17hmr and .22WMR, but i think the smack factor of the .17WSM or Hornet is going to be more what im after for groundhogs.

I agree that there isnt a happy medium, much like a fur friendly fox rifle rifle.

With the options available i think another CZ 527 .17 Hornet is going to be the way to go....the 527 Varmint left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth however. Alittle leery to go with another CZ, They do seem to be the most quality for the price though.
 
Unless you're shooting a rimfire because you must in a built-up area, the Ruger American Predator in .204 would be the best bang for the buck. If that's too much gun, try to find a used .22 Hornet -preferably a C-Z - in your price range.
 

Originally Posted By: B23For those of you who shoot groundhogs with the 17 HMR, what kind of yardage are talking about for the typical shot???

We shot them from 45 yards up to 117 yards with the HMR, with an estimated average distance of 75-80 yards.

When considering groundhogs only, there are a host of fine varmint calibers to choose from, and a guy will pick a caliber based on his needs. But if throw gray squirrels into the mix as was your original desire, with a one-rifle-for-everything approach, then that changes things. I do think you are better off with two rifles rather than one, not saying it can't be accomplished with one.

My offer still stands if anyone would like a DVD copy of my latest video, Rimfire Groundhogs, which may help dispel some of the negative thoughts on the forums about the HMR as being only good enough for grasshoppers and such.



 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Originally Posted By: B23For those of you who shoot groundhogs with the 17 HMR, what kind of yardage are talking about for the typical shot???

We shot them from 45 yards up to 117 yards with the HMR, with an estimated average distance of 75-80 yards.

When considering groundhogs only, there are a host of fine varmint calibers to choose from, and a guy will pick a caliber based on his needs. But if throw gray squirrels into the mix as was your original desire, with a one-rifle-for-everything approach, then that changes things. I do think you are better off with two rifles rather than one, not saying it can't be accomplished with one.

My offer still stands if anyone would like a DVD copy of my latest video, Rimfire Groundhogs, which may help dispel some of the negative thoughts on the forums about the HMR as being only good enough for grasshoppers and such.

Hope you don't think I was doubting you, by asking for the yardages you shoot groundhogs at, because that was not my intent at all.

I am curious WHY you would choose to shoot them with the HMR, something I would consider as a very minimal weapon, unless you have to do to restrictions. We all like different things of course and maybe I'm a little on the gory side but when it comes to shooting rockchucks I prefer seeing them burst open with parts and pieces getting scattered about. For me, the only way I'd choose to shoot groundhogs with a rimfire, even the 17 WSM, is if it were my only choice so I tend to go pick something a little more substantial but that's just me.

If you don't mind, I'd like a copy of your groundhog shooting DVD. PM inbound.
 
I think if you were hoping for explosions on GHs with a .17 WSM I don't think you would be too satisfied . Here are some pics of 2 different hogs shot with my Bmag , one shot at 15 yards and the next 20 plus and with direct hits , so sign of blood or exit wound. Both pretty much shot in the cest , one from the side and the other straight on under the chin . At a longer range the bullet would probably pass through because of less "explosion" on impact. Marginal hits are a different story .... big rips. Jim


2nd chuck
 
I've seen the same result with a .22-250 and 55 grain Hornady SX bullets. A .22 caliber entry and no exit. When the pig was picked up it sloshed from the internal damage.
 
Originally Posted By: lhitchcoxI've seen the same result with a .22-250 and 55 grain Hornady SX bullets. A .22 caliber entry and no exit. When the pig was picked up it sloshed from the internal damage.

They are kind of soggy built little buggers aren't they.

I've never skinned one or anything like that but do they have a thick-ish skin under their hide or some kind of a membrane that tends to keep everything contained inside the way they do??
 

B23,

No worries. I didn't think you were doubting me at all. I figured you were just curious about the ranges we shot them. It's difficult on a computer to determine tone and body language. If were were face to face, we would be having a grand old discussion and good time talking about it.

As to why I chose the HMR, well, it's just because I wanted to. I have spent most of my life in the groundhog fields with centerfires ranging from the 218 Bee, 223, 22-250 etc. to a 6mm06 and some wildcat cartridges too that blow them up like you mentinoned. I have used varmint rifles as well as Contender handguns. I generally shoot them up to the 400 yard mark, but I thought it would be nice to hunt them with rimfires and to make a movie of it.

My reasoning is that perhaps most hunters began at a young age with a rimfire in hand, probably a 22 LR, stalking game etc. Rimfires still hold a dear spot in the hearts of most hunters and there's a pretty good following on the net for rimfires too. The lowly 22 long rifle cartridge is very capable despite it's small size, with limitations of course. Everything has limitations. So, I set out to make a movie of hunting with rimfires only. We had a blast, no pun intended and I hope to do more of it.

So far I only have about 38 minutes of edited footage and I need at least another 25 minutes or so to finish it up. Since we used an HMR some in the video, I thought it might be interesting for some to see how it went for us and so I offered a free DVD to anyone who might like a copy. We also took about the same number of groundhogs with a .22 magnum. I will get a DVD out to you soon and hope you get some enjoyment from it. As well, I'm not suggesting that you switch to the HMR for chucks, but rather just to demonstrate what we have done with the cartridge and the fun we had.

Just to continue the discussion, the thing I like about the HMR is it's flat trajectory and accuracy. The accuracy potential of the HMR cartridge is well established, as is it's flat shooting ability on out past the 100 yard mark. That set a new level of performance when it was introduced and it is still going strong. The .22 mag is pretty good and even though I like the cartridge, I have never been able to get consistent accuracy from it like I have the HMR. The WSM is a relatively new critter that I have no experience with. I like the published velocity of it, but from what I am reading, it seems to be lacking a bit in accuracy compared to the HMR.

Considering the OP's requirement of one rifle for the species mentioned, I gave my personal thoughts about the three initial cartridges he mentioned, when used for both small game (rabbits, squirrels etc.) and groundhogs, and perhaps fox too. Considering accuracy, range and trajectory, killing ability etc., especially for groundhogs, I feel the HMR wins out. The WSM no doubt is a hard hitting and flat shooting number. I have a feeling it will make a good fox round for those who want or need to use a rimfire, but that is yet to be determined and another topic. But, it's lack of accuracy leads me to wonder if head shots are always possible on squirrels, or even on groundhogs when distances are approaching the 100 yard mark and further, so in my mind that puts us back to the HMR.

I did quite a bit of squirrel hunting this past fall with a super accurate little 22 long rifle. I had a wonderful time and put some good meat in the freezer. Here's a link to that. http://www.predatormastersforums.com/for...-%20Post2871476 I could have used my HMR just as well for head shots but I had neglected the 22 for quite a while, so I wanted to use it instead. But, the 22 isn't my go-to choice for groundhogs, though I can use it effectively if I really wanted to. Distances would be cut considerably over what we do with the HMR.

So, I guess the above is my reasoning about the cartridges. Some may agree and some won't, and that's OK since we all like to do things our way. It's good to discuss these things, however which brings everyone together with ideas and thoughts.

As mentioned earlier, one rifle for all those critters is a pretty tall order.

 

I think we all know that the HMR can be a good squirrel rifle due to accuracy and ability to take head shots. The larger questions with most seems to be it's effectiveness on larger species, like groundhog, or fox.

Here's a few photos of Rimfire Groundhogs.

This one was taken by my buddy at 117 yards. It died right on top of the den. Of all
things, he shot it with a 17 gr. V-Max out of a Savage 93. I use 20 gr. CCI Game Points.





Another buddy with one taken at something around 80 yards.





This one was at 91 yards






CZ 452 American .17 HMR, Leupold 4x12 Vari-X 2






Many times we spot groundhogs from a distance, and then have to stalk closer for a rimfire shot.
That's half the fun. Easy pickings for my 22-250 or 6mm06, but requires more work when rimfire
hunting. It's a challenge and that's what I like about it.










My son and an HMR groundhog.






These two were taken by PM member Wahoowad. He invited me up for a groundhog hunt with rimfires.
He used a Ruger laminated .22 mag. The two shots were at 101 yards and 66 yards.






Wahoowad and another .22 mag groundhog, shot at 75 yards.







Your's truly and a .22 mag groundhog at 86 yards. Wahoowad and I have the same model Ruger rifles.





Seems to me if the HMR is capable of clean kills on groundhogs, then it can also be on fox, and still be a good squirrel round too.


All of the above groundhogs are in the video.



 
If you want to go more modern, the 5.7 and 22tcm both look interesting for a less than 223 more than rimfire rifle. Don't know if you can use a semi for hunting in PA though.
 
I think that the perfect groundhog cal. is the 20 vartarg. I shoot a 17 fb, 20 vt, 204 r, 221 fb, 223, and 223 ai, and yes the 17 HMR. In the last two years I have killed over 200 groundhogs with my 17 HMR alone, centerfires have accounted for hundreds more. Over 15 of those 200 were @ 200yds or more. I shoot 17 gr vmax from a cz 452 varmint with a 3x9 bushnell. I learned early on that head shots are a must when the distance gets 100 yds. or more. I zero at 100 yds and dial in any shots beyond that. When it is windy I use a bigger caliber.
 
You state that you have a 222 why not use it? There doesn't seem to be alot of factory ammo selection around where I live but the Internet can solve that issue. I have one in a old savage over under that is devastating on a couple ground hogs I shot.
 


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