OK, can't get over the itch to get one of these figured out. I just acquired a baikal and savage .223/12 ga. over/under. YES they BOTH have issues. Unlike my lucky uncle who has one of each and has no issues, I'm having major impact issues. For the record, I want to use it for predators and maybe turkeys as well. Not over concerned about extreme long range tack driving accuracy or lack of quick follow up shots as the terrain here in WV doesn't really allow for either on most occasions. I want a single crosshair that I can use a 100yd zero for the rifle, then walk up to 20 or 30 and use the same crosshair for the shotgun and have it actually hit the same place! Yes, I know it is possible because I know a few people who have these and do just that. So regarding the guns I now have: Savage= mint condition 24V, rifle zero at 100, shotgun shoots 10" low at 20 yards. The rifle is on top and there is a small gap between the barrels at both ends but it touches in the middle. I placed a shim in the middle where they touch to make an even gap the entire length of barrels. Due to extreme weather here the past few days, have yet to try it out. Now the baikal: rifle zero at 100, shotgun shoots 6" directly left at 20 yards. The funky screw adjustment in front of the forearm took a while to figure out. Barrels were noticably offset left to right at this block the screw goes through. Go figure, manual has NOTHING stating how to work this crazy configuration. Long story short. I placed a washer behind the head of the screw to shorten it which in turn pulled the barrels together left to right and there is no longer a noticeable difference as before. Again, haven't had a change to test it since. Common issues with both I have heard: What scope mounts can withstand the recoil of the 3" mags and stay zero with rifle? Being somewhat "odd" brands in the shotgun lineup today, what and where can I find quality turkey choke tubes for each of these? My uncle has given me limited info considering he purchased both of his several years ago as is. He did say that he initially had problems keeping the scope tight after the shotgun rounds. I'm just looking for anyone who can share some direct info/experience with either or both of these and hopefully get mine straightened out. I know there has been a ton of negative on these configurations but I really want to find one that works. I really don't understand why ANY company would make such a thing without the forethought to make them fully adjustable to begin with but...... Thanks for any help you can provide guys.
help me fix a combo gun
- Thread starter WVDanimal
- Start date
NdIndy
New member
Well doubles are generally tuned by the manufacturer and are NOT adjustable. Usually they have a yardage that the barrels meet poi (s x s), anything before or after you have to adjust poa. I really cant recommend bending the barrels by shim or anything else unless i knew what i was doing.
I have a baikel o/u 12ga. Ive never patterned it but its knocked down every bird ive pointed either barrel at.
I have a baikel o/u 12ga. Ive never patterned it but its knocked down every bird ive pointed either barrel at.
TripleDeuce660
Active member
THe baikal is adjustable I think.
trulock or carlson shoudl have chokes.both are great chokes and both are affordable.
Get yourself a scope that goes down to 1x
Good luck tuning them. I think if you reload you could use that to adjust the elevation that the rifle hits at.
trulock or carlson shoudl have chokes.both are great chokes and both are affordable.
Get yourself a scope that goes down to 1x
Good luck tuning them. I think if you reload you could use that to adjust the elevation that the rifle hits at.
I have the exact same Bakil combo and would not sell it for less than 2K if then. I experimented with chokes ... tried trulock (George is a great guy by the way). The trulok didn't work for me. Bought a wad wizard FANTASTIC but $$. I found a weaver/pictanny rail that clamps on the .22 style reciever (I think the reciever is 11mm and I machined a little ofF the bottom of the weaver rail to let it sit further forward for more eye relief. I have a 1 x 4 ill. scope on the gun. The .223 will shoot 1 moa with winchester white box 40gr. hp or the new VMax 53 gr superperf. I didn't have to mess with my barrels at all and the shotgun shoots to the same point of aim at 50 yds and with Rem Hd BB it will eat up an airgun target 8" x 8" at 50yds. If you get a rail mail it to me and I will machine it for you like I did mine. I also had a local gunsmith work my triggers and its sweet now. You have to train yourself to use the forward trigger to shoot the shootgun barrel because the back trigger is more natural. I shot a fox one night with the 223 at 20 yards when I ment to use the shotgun barrel. I also installed sims recoil pad.
On the Savage, drilling and tapping for a Weaver base with at least 8-40 screws helps. Gunsmith can even make a custom one from Weaver/Pic. base stock if needed. Lite wt. Loc-tite is your friend here too.
On the Savage POI thing, if I'm hearing you right, you put a shim between the bbls. before shooting it???? And it now shoots further apart in the direction you shimmed it?? Take the shim out and try it?? Shim more or in different places?? Toying with loads may help some too. Different chokes MAY affect POI also on the shotty tube. Check to make sure the rear stock bolt is tightened up well, and the stock is not shifting under recoil - can shift POI some, esp. under heavy recoil.
Millet makes bases for the European-style dovetail bases. I think CZ's and/or Tikka/Sako bases may be the same also?? MAYBE??? Might wanna call a ring manf'r and talk to a knowledgeable tech directly on this. I believe it was CZ rings I ordered from Millet for my Marrochi (Italian combo).
To me messing with this stuff is half the fun. Not sure why some guys will dump $1-2K into a Remington SA 700 and say how good it shoots, but down talk this stuff. But sometimes ya just wanna buy a gun and have it do what you want - NOW. Good luck, and let us know how it works out. We all learn from each other here.
On the Savage POI thing, if I'm hearing you right, you put a shim between the bbls. before shooting it???? And it now shoots further apart in the direction you shimmed it?? Take the shim out and try it?? Shim more or in different places?? Toying with loads may help some too. Different chokes MAY affect POI also on the shotty tube. Check to make sure the rear stock bolt is tightened up well, and the stock is not shifting under recoil - can shift POI some, esp. under heavy recoil.
Millet makes bases for the European-style dovetail bases. I think CZ's and/or Tikka/Sako bases may be the same also?? MAYBE??? Might wanna call a ring manf'r and talk to a knowledgeable tech directly on this. I believe it was CZ rings I ordered from Millet for my Marrochi (Italian combo).
To me messing with this stuff is half the fun. Not sure why some guys will dump $1-2K into a Remington SA 700 and say how good it shoots, but down talk this stuff. But sometimes ya just wanna buy a gun and have it do what you want - NOW. Good luck, and let us know how it works out. We all learn from each other here.
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Thanks for the input so far guys. I put a shim in the savage after initially shooting it and have not shot it since putting the shim in because we've had freezing rain/snow for the past few days. So I don't know how or if this has affected it yet. It does have a weaver style rail mount base (one piece). Perhaps done by previous owner?? Regarding scopes and recoil, I was looking at a Nikon Prostaff 3x9x40 with the ARD added. Would the standard rifle scope hold up to shotgun recoil or is it absolutely necessary to get one specifically designated as "shotgun" scope? I'm only gonna look for all steel mounting systems because I once tried aluminum base mounts that would not remain tight on a shotgun. I like the lock tite idea too!I'm fairly limited on my knowledge of anything gunsmithing so I'm trying to be patient and get one or both of these suckers figured out!
I'd talk to a scope manufacturer on their scopes regarding the recoil issues. Most shotgun scopes have thicker reticles, not allowing quite the precision aiming at longer distances on small targets. I've wondered the same thing often, but would talk to a specific manf'r on a specific scope, for a specific answer there.
Curious to see your results.
Curious to see your results.
Any quality (not $50.00) rifle scope should hold up to a shotgun's recoil. Some large caliber rifles recoil as much or more than standard shotgun loads. I believe the biggest difference with a shotgun scope is the closer factory parallax settings. I know the standard Leupold rifle setting is 150 yards, but their shotgun scopes are set for 75 yards.
I've found most of the Savage combo guns don't shoot both barrels to the same point of impact. Regulating the two barrels takes time and money that most lower cost manufacturers don't want to spend.
I've found most of the Savage combo guns don't shoot both barrels to the same point of impact. Regulating the two barrels takes time and money that most lower cost manufacturers don't want to spend.
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Update: Think I got the Baikal figured out. After putting in the washer to shorten the adjustment rod I shot the rifle at 100 and it hit 18" to the left which meant I had definately gotten some results. Positive results since the shotgun hit 6" left at 20. Took the rifle back to zero at 100 and then fired the shotgun at 20 = DEAD ON with the same crosshair! I've only shot the 40 grain BT, haven't toyed with the 55 SP in it yet. It will still cover a 3 shot group at 100 with a quarter. I'm happy now but so much more to do..
I need to get the triggers worked on the Baikal, they're horrible. Really long hard pull on both. Gotta upgrade the optics, get a choke, sling and sims pad. Then comes the camo paint
). Does anyone know if an extended choke from the shotgun would affect the compression/accuracy element of the rifle since the barrels are so close together and the choke would protrude beyond the rifle barrel?
The Savage trigger is outstanding, smooth and crisp. Still working on that one!
I need to get the triggers worked on the Baikal, they're horrible. Really long hard pull on both. Gotta upgrade the optics, get a choke, sling and sims pad. Then comes the camo paint
). Does anyone know if an extended choke from the shotgun would affect the compression/accuracy element of the rifle since the barrels are so close together and the choke would protrude beyond the rifle barrel? The Savage trigger is outstanding, smooth and crisp. Still working on that one!
NDAR15MAN
Member
i owned the IZH94 12/223 Rifle/Shotgun. I PUT A FULLFIELD 11 SCOPE ON IT AND SEE THROUGH SCOPE MOUNTS. I wanted to see if i could shoot a pheasant with see through iron sights on the shotgun and use the scope for the rifle barrel only. i just could not hit the flying bird or clay bird, could not get on the bird fast enough trying to line up iron sights through the see through scope mounts. So i sold gun. I wish I had kept the gun. I found out that millet use to make scope mounts with iron sights made on the top of the scope rings. i think that set up would have worked. the 223 shot 1 inch groups with black hills gold 52grhp. let us know if you try this type of scope / iron sight set up. i really wished i would have tried it. Matter a fact i am thinking about buying a drilling rifle and trying this scope/iron sight set up . marty
Put some rounds through the Savage after putting the shim between the barrels and IT WORKED! Did a quick 100yd zero with 40gr NBT then shot the 12ga. at 20yds and it was right on using the same crosshair. Put a few shotgun rounds through it and then rechecked the rifle to see if the scope was holding up (borrowed Nikon). Did a 3 round group and they were all over the place, about 2". Initially thought the shim had messed with grouping ability but then I tried 55 grain psp. I did a 3 shot, one hole group at 100! Couldn't believe it! Is this normal for there to be that much difference between ammo? Extremely pleased with the accuracy of this 'club'. Added a sims recoil pad after this trip to the range, brutal with 3" rounds! Received the Indian Creek BD Strike yesterday, which by the way is Winchoke/Invector system that fits the Savage, anxious to try it out soon! This is nice because I get to also try it in my Win. pump that I turkey hunt with. Awaiting a Nikon Slughunter scope with ARD and a few hundred bucks worth of ammo that is on BACKORDER (of course!). Couldn't get a combo gun that shot decent for years and now I've gotten 2 in a matter of weeks. Weight on both are ironically identical: 8.14 empty/without sling. Now which one to keep...
ARCOREY
New member
I'd shoot both combo guns at 25, 50, 100, and 150yds with a dead hold using the rifle barrel. Then do both at 25 and 50yds with the shotgun. Compare targets and go with the one that fits the distance you hunt best with both barrels. Savage has a top rifle bottom shotgun, Baikal the opposite. It may be interesting what you find and what you'll have to sacrifice to keep one or the other.