I was down in the reloading room doing a little reading. I was comparing the 6.5 cal cartridges. I am gearing up for my next project which will be a long range coyote medium game target rifle. I want a 6.5 cal gun. I am having trouble desiding what route to take. From the readings, I have gathered some information that leads me to beleive that the 264 winchester magnum is the better performer in this catagory. I have asked this question in different fashion a few times on this forum, each time with different reviews. Some have told me that 6.5x284 is the way to go. other suggest that a 260 remington is the way to go. and i have even been told to look at 6.5x55. I am a shotgunner first, but i am really enjoying learning about my rifles and possible new rifles. I love to reload and i am finally getting to the point wear i can shoot pretty good. I am a master class shooter in sporting clays but deffinatly a begginer in rifle shooting. Anyway back to the question at hand. In your guys educated opinion what route should i take for this next project of mine. Like i have said before, factory offerings are hard to come by, everything long range is 308. I dont have any problem with 308, but i just want the 6.5 I know that much. Why isnt the 264 win mag more popular in bench rest shooting? It seems to be the clear winner to me? Thanks Lee
Help me understand the 6.5 cal cartridges.
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
CatShooter
New member
I'll answer this out of order...
Quote:
Why isn't the 264 win mag more popular in bench rest shooting? It seems to be the clear winner to me? Thanks Lee
None of these cartridges are benchrest cartridges, and why would it matter.
From what you say, you are looking for a field rifle for game shooting, not a bench rest rifle.
Last year, I put together a .264WM for long range predators, coyotes and feral dogs - it is very accurate, but not benchrest accurate...
... I don't shoot it for benchrest - it's not a bench rest rifle.
Large cases with small bores = short barrel life.
Bench rest shooters shoot a lot - they would be going through several barrels a season with an 75 grain case in the 6.5mm bore.
If you want a match rife, look at the 6.5x47 - it is an outstandingly accurate 6.5 calibre... but it has the case capacity of the .220 Swift, so it's no long range game rifle.
The point here is that you can't reasonably have a benchrest and longrange game rifle in the 6.5 bore size.
Quote:
I was down in the reloading room doing a little reading. I was comparing the 6.5 cal cartridges. I am gearing up for my next project which will be a long range coyote medium game target rifle. I want a 6.5 cal gun. I am having trouble deciding what route to take. From the readings, I have gathered some information that leads me to believe that the 264 winchester magnum is the better performer in this category. I have asked this question in different fashion a few times on this forum, each time with different reviews. Some have told me that 6.5x284 is the way to go. other suggest that a 260 remington is the way to go. and i have even been told to look at 6.5x55.
The 6.5x55 is not long range predator cartridge, and should not be on your list of considerations.
There are four viable popular cartridges that fit your described needs - the .260, the 6.5x'06, the 6.5x284, and the .264WM.
With proper barreling and a good rifle build, all of these will do what you want with the accuracy needed... none of them are benchrest accurate.
The target and match 6.5 cases are much smaller than the .260, and lack the "whack factor: at long range.
Quote:
"... but deffinatly a begginer in rifle shooting. Anyway back to the question at hand. In your guys educated opinion what route should i take for this next project of mine. Thanks Lee
I would suggest that you define your needs better, and then narrow it down. When you say, "I am gearing up for my next project which will be a long range coyote medium game target rifle. I want a 6.5 cal gun.".
What do you mean by long range coyote - 200 yds, 400 yds, 1,000 yds? And by medium game, do you mean 100 pound White Tails at 200yds, or Prong Horns at 500 yds?
Figure that out, and it will narrow things down.
.
Quote:
Why isn't the 264 win mag more popular in bench rest shooting? It seems to be the clear winner to me? Thanks Lee
None of these cartridges are benchrest cartridges, and why would it matter.
From what you say, you are looking for a field rifle for game shooting, not a bench rest rifle.
Last year, I put together a .264WM for long range predators, coyotes and feral dogs - it is very accurate, but not benchrest accurate...
... I don't shoot it for benchrest - it's not a bench rest rifle.
Large cases with small bores = short barrel life.
Bench rest shooters shoot a lot - they would be going through several barrels a season with an 75 grain case in the 6.5mm bore.
If you want a match rife, look at the 6.5x47 - it is an outstandingly accurate 6.5 calibre... but it has the case capacity of the .220 Swift, so it's no long range game rifle.
The point here is that you can't reasonably have a benchrest and longrange game rifle in the 6.5 bore size.
Quote:
I was down in the reloading room doing a little reading. I was comparing the 6.5 cal cartridges. I am gearing up for my next project which will be a long range coyote medium game target rifle. I want a 6.5 cal gun. I am having trouble deciding what route to take. From the readings, I have gathered some information that leads me to believe that the 264 winchester magnum is the better performer in this category. I have asked this question in different fashion a few times on this forum, each time with different reviews. Some have told me that 6.5x284 is the way to go. other suggest that a 260 remington is the way to go. and i have even been told to look at 6.5x55.
The 6.5x55 is not long range predator cartridge, and should not be on your list of considerations.
There are four viable popular cartridges that fit your described needs - the .260, the 6.5x'06, the 6.5x284, and the .264WM.
With proper barreling and a good rifle build, all of these will do what you want with the accuracy needed... none of them are benchrest accurate.
The target and match 6.5 cases are much smaller than the .260, and lack the "whack factor: at long range.
Quote:
"... but deffinatly a begginer in rifle shooting. Anyway back to the question at hand. In your guys educated opinion what route should i take for this next project of mine. Thanks Lee
I would suggest that you define your needs better, and then narrow it down. When you say, "I am gearing up for my next project which will be a long range coyote medium game target rifle. I want a 6.5 cal gun.".
What do you mean by long range coyote - 200 yds, 400 yds, 1,000 yds? And by medium game, do you mean 100 pound White Tails at 200yds, or Prong Horns at 500 yds?
Figure that out, and it will narrow things down.
.
Coyotejunki
Well-known member
I have Several 6.5x55's and a couple 260's in modern hunting rifles. I reload and have always thought of these two as basically the same in performance.
Hey Skeetlee,
I was in the same situation last year and really wanted a 6.5. I had a ruger 30-06 that wouldn't shoot worth a darn so I sent it to Dan Carey and had a 6.5-06 ackley improved built. It shoots 120 grainers at 3100 fps and I am now playing with 130s and 140's (i haven't tried pushing velocities). It is always a pain blowing out brass...but i now have 100 pieces of Lapua ready to go. I shot several five shot groups at 425 yards in the 3 to 3.5 inch range. I really like this gun.
I was in the same situation last year and really wanted a 6.5. I had a ruger 30-06 that wouldn't shoot worth a darn so I sent it to Dan Carey and had a 6.5-06 ackley improved built. It shoots 120 grainers at 3100 fps and I am now playing with 130s and 140's (i haven't tried pushing velocities). It is always a pain blowing out brass...but i now have 100 pieces of Lapua ready to go. I shot several five shot groups at 425 yards in the 3 to 3.5 inch range. I really like this gun.
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
Why do you suppose no one thinks of the 6.5 Reming Mag? Probably can do about as much as a 264 although in a short action.
Denny
Not hardly...
It is equal to the 6.5-06, and a long way from the .264WM
Why do you suppose no one thinks of the 6.5 Reming Mag? Probably can do about as much as a 264 although in a short action.
Denny
Not hardly...
It is equal to the 6.5-06, and a long way from the .264WM
Ridge Runner
New member
The easiest way to make 6.5/06 AI brass is start with new 25/06 cases, prime them, load with a mod. 6.5/06 charge and seat a boatail .264 bullet of your preferred flavor, no resizing needed, fire and out pops a fully formed case, however wyo has a good idea to use the lapua brass, its worth the trouble.
You could probably match a factory 264 wm's performance with a 6.5 RM AI if you run a longer barrel.
My gibbs will do 3200 fps w/140 with fair case life but it has a 29.5" barrel.
RR
You could probably match a factory 264 wm's performance with a 6.5 RM AI if you run a longer barrel.
My gibbs will do 3200 fps w/140 with fair case life but it has a 29.5" barrel.
RR
knockemdown
New member
Quote:
What do you mean by long range coyote - 200 yds, 400 yds, 1,000 yds? And by medium game, do you mean 100 pound White Tails at 200yds, or Prong Horns at 500 yds?
Figure that out, and it will narrow things down.
.
+1 CAT...
Skeet,
Define your 'niche' more solidly & then build the gun to fill it...
Quote:
There are four viable popular cartridges that fit your described needs - the .260, the 6.5x'06, the 6.5x284, and the .264WM.
With proper barreling and a good rifle build, all of these will do what you want with the accuracy needed... none of them are benchrest accurate.
.
??Are you telling me that no one uses the 6.5x284 in Benchrest? I guess that what I am doing wrong.....
John
There are four viable popular cartridges that fit your described needs - the .260, the 6.5x'06, the 6.5x284, and the .264WM.
With proper barreling and a good rifle build, all of these will do what you want with the accuracy needed... none of them are benchrest accurate.
.
??Are you telling me that no one uses the 6.5x284 in Benchrest? I guess that what I am doing wrong.....
John
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
Quote:
There are four viable popular cartridges that fit your described needs - the .260, the 6.5x'06, the 6.5x284, and the .264WM.
With proper barreling and a good rifle build, all of these will do what you want with the accuracy needed... none of them are benchrest accurate.
.
??Are you telling me that no one uses the 6.5x284 in Benchrest? I guess that what I am doing wrong.....
John
I think you know when he meant, and you know what I meant...
He's not building a 1,000 BR rifle. He just wants to kill yotes and some kind of medium game.
Don't cloud the waters.
.
Quote:
There are four viable popular cartridges that fit your described needs - the .260, the 6.5x'06, the 6.5x284, and the .264WM.
With proper barreling and a good rifle build, all of these will do what you want with the accuracy needed... none of them are benchrest accurate.
.
??Are you telling me that no one uses the 6.5x284 in Benchrest? I guess that what I am doing wrong.....
John
I think you know when he meant, and you know what I meant...
He's not building a 1,000 BR rifle. He just wants to kill yotes and some kind of medium game.
Don't cloud the waters.
.
White Eagle
New member
check out your previous post(s)
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb...1&fpart=all
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb...1&fpart=all
MPFD
Well-known member
I think the 260 Rem looks really intresting. I had a 6.5x55 and I never felt like it was really a "great" cartridge. Maybe it was the gun but anytime I got a high enough velocity to shoot decently flat, the accuracy was terrible. I love the B.C. and the sectional density of the 6.5 bullet, and I think the NATO case would have plenty of capacity to drive it as fast as I wanted to drive the swede, and still retain good accuracy "with a fast enough twist". I love the stats of of the .264 Win Mag but they have more recoil and burn alot more powder, (expensive to reload) which is my only complaint about my .300 Win Mag. But it's all up to you.
IDBob
New member
Lots of info here for you skeetlee. Best I can say is start comparing velocity's for the weight bullets you shoot. There are several ballistic calculators that will give you drop comparisons. Remington has one on there website. You can visually compare different trajectories for cartridges side by side with these. Those can give you a good idea how each drops at longer ranges and also how much wind drift each has.
I'd probably consider the 6.5 by 284 and the 264 Win mag for the use you describe as both are factory loadings. Both are close in velocity. The 6.5 by 284 is being shot in lots of bench rest matches and would seem to have an accuracy edge over the 264 Win mag.
Keeping a factory available cartridge has some advantages over a wildcat but there are some exceptional wildcats out there such as the 6.5 STW formed from the 8mm Rem mag case or the 7mm STW case and the even bigger 6.5 Rem Ultra-mag formed from the 7mm Ultra-mag case. Just keep in mind that these big overbore cases arn't noted for great barrel life.
I'd probably consider the 6.5 by 284 and the 264 Win mag for the use you describe as both are factory loadings. Both are close in velocity. The 6.5 by 284 is being shot in lots of bench rest matches and would seem to have an accuracy edge over the 264 Win mag.
Keeping a factory available cartridge has some advantages over a wildcat but there are some exceptional wildcats out there such as the 6.5 STW formed from the 8mm Rem mag case or the 7mm STW case and the even bigger 6.5 Rem Ultra-mag formed from the 7mm Ultra-mag case. Just keep in mind that these big overbore cases arn't noted for great barrel life.
No one is clouding the waters, the 6.5x284 is used in Benchrest. It is capable of outstanding accuracy. By the way the 6.5x55 has in years past (and still today in certain arenas) been used in a wide variety of European rifle matches. It is the near ballistic twin of the .260 Rem and even has a slight edge when loaded to the new CIP standards.
I have tried two different heavy gun builds based on the .264 Win Mag. Neither succeeded, for a variety of reasons. Is the .264 WM capable of min. of yote accuracy? Absolutely. It also burns more powder, kicks more with only a modest gain in trajectory over the already inefficient 6.5x284.
By the way, the 6.5x47 has about a 30gr. powder capacity and the .220 Swift has about a 45gr. powder capacity.
Skeet, the choice is ultimately up to you, personally, I like them all. Each of your choice cartridges has an advantage over the others. My heavy guns are 6.5x284. I have built one light carry rifle in 6.5x284 for white tail that I just love. On the other hand, I have a .260 that is just as accurate in a hunting rifle and is more efficient. Also have a 6.5x55 built on an old Savage 110 that shoots like a dream.
John
I have tried two different heavy gun builds based on the .264 Win Mag. Neither succeeded, for a variety of reasons. Is the .264 WM capable of min. of yote accuracy? Absolutely. It also burns more powder, kicks more with only a modest gain in trajectory over the already inefficient 6.5x284.
By the way, the 6.5x47 has about a 30gr. powder capacity and the .220 Swift has about a 45gr. powder capacity.
Skeet, the choice is ultimately up to you, personally, I like them all. Each of your choice cartridges has an advantage over the others. My heavy guns are 6.5x284. I have built one light carry rifle in 6.5x284 for white tail that I just love. On the other hand, I have a .260 that is just as accurate in a hunting rifle and is more efficient. Also have a 6.5x55 built on an old Savage 110 that shoots like a dream.
John
Last edited:
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
"... By the way, the 6.5x47 has about a 30gr. powder capacity and the .220 Swift has about a 45gr. powder capacity.
John
By the way... Not hardly.
The BR family holds 30 grains of powder (32-33 if light bullets are seated out, and you can load the neck)... I own two 6mmBRs and 32 grains will fill the case just shy of the mouth.
The 6.5x47 is quite a bit larger.
Have a look:
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek085.html
.
"... By the way, the 6.5x47 has about a 30gr. powder capacity and the .220 Swift has about a 45gr. powder capacity.
John
By the way... Not hardly.
The BR family holds 30 grains of powder (32-33 if light bullets are seated out, and you can load the neck)... I own two 6mmBRs and 32 grains will fill the case just shy of the mouth.
The 6.5x47 is quite a bit larger.
Have a look:
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek085.html
.
I am probable getting ahead of myself at this point anyway. This project has a dead line of next hunting season, so no big rush. I have been invited to go out west on a prairie dog hunt with some fellas that big time long range shooters. Maybe you have heard me talk about it before. David Tubbs comes out to montana every year to shoot with my buddies. I cant go this year because i am going to Canada fishing but next year i will go. I just want a rifle in the 6.5 cal that i can shoot coyotes out to 5-600 yards and maybe shoot one of those Prairie rats say out to 1000 yards. The guys i am going with will not shoot at them much closer than that. I guess it is kind of a wast to shoot the 408 chey-tac at closer ranges. The one friend i have trains shooters at Black Water and has bee to Iraq a few time to take care of buissness. He also is a doctor and has plenty of money to fund his habits. I just dont want to be out of place when i go. Out skilled is one thing, I just want to have good enough equipment to shoot half of what they will shoot. Thanks lee
steve garrett
Well-known member
the 264 shooting 140 bergers at 3200 is the king of long range short of moving up to a 338 lapua, the 264 must be used with a 26" barrel or longer, or else its just a barrel burning 270 win, I have a 264 with the intention of using it for yotes out to 700-800 yards or maybe longer, however I still plan on using my 270 win for big game hunting as I don't wanna tote a 26" barrel around and don't plan on shooting at big game animals much past 500 yards
So bottom line is you want to impress the big boys with your gear /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Sounds like a guy I know that went out two years ago and purchased over $1000 in hunting camo Scent Lok stuff, 300 dollar boots, Cabelas best waterproof, snow proof, stink proof, wind proof, insulated to below minus 400 degree camo parka and bibs. Camo Body Armor underwear down to the socks and sunglasses. He looked like a freakin' Cabelas model. He spent so much money on clothes he couldn't afford to buy a rifle to hunt with so I loaned him one of mine.
The next day he stood 40 yards from a really nice 4 point whitetail buck and couldn't see antlers to save his toosh. He watched as the buck trotted off, he never fired a round at it. I mean this buck stood in the wide open long enough to drop DRT in 6 inch wheat stubble and he had no clue it was a shootable deer, but he looked darn good out there.
He hasn't been hunting since and probably sold all the stuff by now. He's not a hunter but he thinks that is what hunters need to be successful. He hates it when I go out with him wearing blue jeans a white t-shirt a little orange and a beat up AR.
Skeet, don't go to impress the other guys, you'll be broke in no time. Get ya a simple Savage 7mm mag use 120 grain stuff and knock'em dead out to 600 or 800 yards or so. That's pretty darn good shootin' if ya ask me. Trust me the other guys could care less what you bring to the shoot, just as long as you have fun. They probably won't even remember your name after two weeks much less what you were shooting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Sounds like a guy I know that went out two years ago and purchased over $1000 in hunting camo Scent Lok stuff, 300 dollar boots, Cabelas best waterproof, snow proof, stink proof, wind proof, insulated to below minus 400 degree camo parka and bibs. Camo Body Armor underwear down to the socks and sunglasses. He looked like a freakin' Cabelas model. He spent so much money on clothes he couldn't afford to buy a rifle to hunt with so I loaned him one of mine.
The next day he stood 40 yards from a really nice 4 point whitetail buck and couldn't see antlers to save his toosh. He watched as the buck trotted off, he never fired a round at it. I mean this buck stood in the wide open long enough to drop DRT in 6 inch wheat stubble and he had no clue it was a shootable deer, but he looked darn good out there.
He hasn't been hunting since and probably sold all the stuff by now. He's not a hunter but he thinks that is what hunters need to be successful. He hates it when I go out with him wearing blue jeans a white t-shirt a little orange and a beat up AR.
Skeet, don't go to impress the other guys, you'll be broke in no time. Get ya a simple Savage 7mm mag use 120 grain stuff and knock'em dead out to 600 or 800 yards or so. That's pretty darn good shootin' if ya ask me. Trust me the other guys could care less what you bring to the shoot, just as long as you have fun. They probably won't even remember your name after two weeks much less what you were shooting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif